Ideas to help new players settle on BG

[dedude]

...i would like to see more ways to get exp in game that is more RP friendly, tasks or events.

for example
...
- Sleeping exp
- For drinking
...

That is how you reach level 30 epic Hobo

[A Hippo]

This thread is hilarious. I was going to say something much harsher, but the happy pills (I'm serious) are kicking in, and I'll try to lighten the mood.

Last 5 pages are 'old' players, discussing what should be done and what nerfs should be implemented in order to make this place more appealing to new players. May I suggest a radical new approach: how about asking new players what THEY would like to see/have in a game, before telling them "OK that's not gonna work here, BGTSCC is serious RP business"?

Now, my father has a saying: "I respect a man who has constructive criticism, but I don't have a shred of respect for a critic who has no constructive opinion or advice". And he is right - so, here's a few things that may benefit the server, in my arrogant/humble/uninformed opinion.


1. RP

DM's... reward RP. REWARD IT, with all letters capital, not just "R". Even if it's just a discussion about masonry between dwarven PC and DM-controlled guard about why the wall of Baldur's Gate is in poor shape, reward it. Reward quick thinking in quests, out-of-the-box solutions, creativeness. I can't stress how good it feels, for a player, to utilize his brain and skills of his player character (in further text PC) to find a solution to problems ranging from mice running trough a field, to witches cursing the same field.

My personal best time I've had in a DM-run quest was with a joke character, whom I'm testing as a supposed FS/Paladin powerbuild. I've been unsatisfied with poor performance of my human archer (a non-powerbuild, glass cannon) so I've made "Alexander Jones"... literally Alex Jones, a conspiracy theorist from Icewind Dale, former militiaman and recovering drunk-turn-Helmite, who has left his home due to said problems to protect whoever needs protecting.

DM Bembel presented us with a quest about two farmers, witchcraft, paranoia, envy and adultery. Lots of people quit that night, due to connection problems or boredom, but something clicked in me - for the first time, I was running a PALADIN. And I've decided to try and get in his shoes, and mind, and instead of being lawful, stupid, or good, I've tried to be compassionate and level-headed. And even an elven party member who argued that his arguments were purely logic-based, showed compassion and understanding. In the end, there was much more talking and detective work done than actual killing of hags, but I've had great time. Alex Jones, the tinfoil drunkard, was turned into something much more - a warm-hearted man who was able to understand all sides and even pity the nice old lady who gave him tea (and then tried to kill him). DM recognized all our efforts and rewarded that accordingly. I still have Diplomat's amulet, not because of +2 AC, but because of +2 Diplomacy; I hope there could be more peaceful resolutions with Alex's help in the future.


2. Crafting

Crafting is bread and butter of this game. Even if you want to limit it... you cannot completely take it out, because if you take out bread... well, it's not a full meal anymore.

As far as I see it, it's irresponsible to prolong crafting systems this long. Take my criticism any way you want it, but my opinion isn't going to change. You don't want people suddenly making +4 swords en masse? Fine - how about giving people actual use for armor and weapon crafting? Make MASTERWORK weapons and armor, perhaps use the level of those skills to determine how MUCH can a certain item, forged by a master smith, be enchanted or improved? So far, I've seen 1 (ONE) use for armorcrafting - the armor rack in the 2nd level of Hilltop Ruins... and that's it. Weaponsmithing is also neglected... you should give some love to those two skills again.

Alchemy is faring a bit better, I think. There's even a custom PRC revolving around it, but the way it's set up, it sounds not too well implemented and, above all, expensive. Again, I get it; you want to recreate the conditions of actual PnP, but here's the twist...


...wait for it...


...NWN2 is NOT PnP. It's a CRPG which focuses on insanely overpowered items, even in vanilla game (not even going to mention MoTB, that part is just ridiculous). So, instead of trying to cater to a small crowd of PnP enthusiasts here, why not go the middle path? Find the not-too-expensive solutions for armor/weapon/alchemy crafting and implement them. It's been 6 years now, people.


3. Professions

As much as I loathe Haven as a place where cruel, unusual and tempting things happen, I greatly admire their profession system. Let me tell you a thing about Haven... it has MINING. And crafting. And fishing (don't, DON'T mention fishing that exist here... it is ridiculous). And many other things that you can do, that actually reward you in a sense of now just XP, but also being a part of a community that can form a viable economical bond. Miners specialize in mining, they get ore and gems for smiths and gem-cutters who then create items that may be enchanted by enchanters... and beyond all that, there are farmers and fishers who provide food and material for alchemists to create potions... it's a SYSTEM. One that slowly, but surely, gets both your crafting xp up and your actual xp up. So, in such a setting you don't have to be just another ale-drinking, axe-wielding bearded little man - you can be a master miner or a master smith, thus giving your character another dimension.

I'm not saying Haven's system should be followed to the letter; I'm not even sure it's still the way it was few years ago, when I last visited it, but I believe it's a great place to look at how certain things, professions-wise, can be done and then try to recreate some of it in a way that would be adequate for BGTSCC.

4. Unconventional XP

I personally dislike XP ticks. They give a false sense of progress and ruin the fun for me. In essence, I hate all the things that are FREE (although I have no problem of giving away free things to people who want it, or desperately need it, like those poor lv1 wizards with pathetic health pool). I like to EARN my xp and my stuff, sometimes by crying and sweating blood if needed. I remember one abandoned server I've tried years ago and how I was ecstatic when I've earned enough money for a genuine masterwork greatsword - +1 to AB, man!

On the other hand, grind can be soul-crushing at times, especially for certain classes. So here is another place where DM's can help - create not mini-event, but MICRO-events (see chapter 1, for xp rewards) which could aid new players. Anyone remember TOEE? Another great RPG, by Troika Games, in which you could do several non-combat quests which rewarded you so well that you could, with some luck and negotiating skills, push your entire squad to lv2. There was a quest where your healer/druid could recognize hemlock in farmer's field and alarm him of it; there was a quest where your dwarven fighter with iron liver could outdrink entire pub and earn not just respect of townspeople, but also free rooms; there was negotiation of religious eloping from old faith to another... and so on.

Of course, the name of the game is still Dungeons and Dragons, not Teaparties and Talespinning By The Fire, so there's the eventual swordplay... but even before it (or, in the case of aforementioned Bembel's quest, instead of it) there is so much an active, present DM could do to create a world that is truly vibrant and alivefor a player - ANY player. For example, a barmaid can look at a lv20-something PC and their incessant talky-talking in FAI and then scold him or her for sitting on their ass when there are demons in the night, ruining people's lives... same barmaid can, instead, tell a lv6 fighter that there is a raiding party of bandits nearby, which could be dispatched - if not even talked into doing something else, by a skilled negotiator or bluffer. Best fights are those you have won with your brain/mouth.



TL;DR:
There is no tl;dr version of this; if you don't like long texts or just don't like hearing other people's opinions, no matter how wrong, skip this. If you don't like my opinion, tough. Have a nice day, in any case.

[Calodan]

This thread is hilarious. I was going to say something much harsher, but the happy pills (I'm serious) are kicking in, and I'll try to lighten the mood.

Last 5 pages are 'old' players, discussing what should be done and what nerfs should be implemented in order to make this place more appealing to new players. May I suggest a radical new approach: how about asking new players what THEY would like to see/have in a game, before telling them "OK that's not gonna work here, BGTSCC is serious RP business"?

Now, my father has a saying: "I respect a man who has constructive criticism, but I don't have a shred of respect for a critic who has no constructive opinion or advice". And he is right - so, here's a few things that may benefit the server, in my arrogant/humble/uninformed opinion.


1. RP

DM's... reward RP. REWARD IT, with all letters capital, not just "R". Even if it's just a discussion about masonry between dwarven PC and DM-controlled guard about why the wall of Baldur's Gate is in poor shape, reward it. Reward quick thinking in quests, out-of-the-box solutions, creativeness. I can't stress how good it feels, for a player, to utilize his brain and skills of his player character (in further text PC) to find a solution to problems ranging from mice running trough a field, to witches cursing the same field.

My personal best time I've had in a DM-run quest was with a joke character, whom I'm testing as a supposed FS/Paladin powerbuild. I've been unsatisfied with poor performance of my human archer (a non-powerbuild, glass cannon) so I've made "Alexander Jones"... literally Alex Jones, a conspiracy theorist from Icewind Dale, former militiaman and recovering drunk-turn-Helmite, who has left his home due to said problems to protect whoever needs protecting.

DM Bembel presented us with a quest about two farmers, witchcraft, paranoia, envy and adultery. Lots of people quit that night, due to connection problems or boredom, but something clicked in me - for the first time, I was running a PALADIN. And I've decided to try and get in his shoes, and mind, and instead of being lawful, stupid, or good, I've tried to be compassionate and level-headed. And even an elven party member who argued that his arguments were purely logic-based, showed compassion and understanding. In the end, there was much more talking and detective work done than actual killing of hags, but I've had great time. Alex Jones, the tinfoil drunkard, was turned into something much more - a warm-hearted man who was able to understand all sides and even pity the nice old lady who gave him tea (and then tried to kill him). DM recognized all our efforts and rewarded that accordingly. I still have Diplomat's amulet, not because of +2 AC, but because of +2 Diplomacy; I hope there could be more peaceful resolutions with Alex's help in the future.


2. Crafting

Crafting is bread and butter of this game. Even if you want to limit it... you cannot completely take it out, because if you take out bread... well, it's not a full meal anymore.

As far as I see it, it's irresponsible to prolong crafting systems this long. Take my criticism any way you want it, but my opinion isn't going to change. You don't want people suddenly making +4 swords en masse? Fine - how about giving people actual use for armor and weapon crafting? Make MASTERWORK weapons and armor, perhaps use the level of those skills to determine how MUCH can a certain item, forged by a master smith, be enchanted or improved? So far, I've seen 1 (ONE) use for armorcrafting - the armor rack in the 2nd level of Hilltop Ruins... and that's it. Weaponsmithing is also neglected... you should give some love to those two skills again.

Alchemy is faring a bit better, I think. There's even a custom PRC revolving around it, but the way it's set up, it sounds not too well implemented and, above all, expensive. Again, I get it; you want to recreate the conditions of actual PnP, but here's the twist...


...wait for it...


...NWN2 is NOT PnP. It's a CRPG which focuses on insanely overpowered items, even in vanilla game (not even going to mention MoTB, that part is just ridiculous). So, instead of trying to cater to a small crowd of PnP enthusiasts here, why not go the middle path? Find the not-too-expensive solutions for armor/weapon/alchemy crafting and implement them. It's been 6 years now, people.


3. Professions

As much as I loathe Haven as a place where cruel, unusual and tempting things happen, I greatly admire their profession system. Let me tell you a thing about Haven... it has MINING. And crafting. And fishing (don't, DON'T mention fishing that exist here... it is ridiculous). And many other things that you can do, that actually reward you in a sense of now just XP, but also being a part of a community that can form a viable economical bond. Miners specialize in mining, they get ore and gems for smiths and gem-cutters who then create items that may be enchanted by enchanters... and beyond all that, there are farmers and fishers who provide food and material for alchemists to create potions... it's a SYSTEM. One that slowly, but surely, gets both your crafting xp up and your actual xp up. So, in such a setting you don't have to be just another ale-drinking, axe-wielding bearded little man - you can be a master miner or a master smith, thus giving your character another dimension.

I'm not saying Haven's system should be followed to the letter; I'm not even sure it's still the way it was few years ago, when I last visited it, but I believe it's a great place to look at how certain things, professions-wise, can be done and then try to recreate some of it in a way that would be adequate for BGTSCC.

4. Unconventional XP

I personally dislike XP ticks. They give a false sense of progress and ruin the fun for me. In essence, I hate all the things that are FREE (although I have no problem of giving away free things to people who want it, or desperately need it, like those poor lv1 wizards with pathetic health pool). I like to EARN my xp and my stuff, sometimes by crying and sweating blood if needed. I remember one abandoned server I've tried years ago and how I was ecstatic when I've earned enough money for a genuine masterwork greatsword - +1 to AB, man!

On the other hand, grind can be soul-crushing at times, especially for certain classes. So here is another place where DM's can help - create not mini-event, but MICRO-events (see chapter 1, for xp rewards) which could aid new players. Anyone remember TOEE? Another great RPG, by Troika Games, in which you could do several non-combat quests which rewarded you so well that you could, with some luck and negotiating skills, push your entire squad to lv2. There was a quest where your healer/druid could recognize hemlock in farmer's field and alarm him of it; there was a quest where your dwarven fighter with iron liver could outdrink entire pub and earn not just respect of townspeople, but also free rooms; there was negotiation of religious eloping from old faith to another... and so on.

Of course, the name of the game is still Dungeons and Dragons, not Teaparties and Talespinning By The Fire, so there's the eventual swordplay... but even before it (or, in the case of aforementioned Bembel's quest, instead of it) there is so much an active, present DM could do to create a world that is truly vibrant and alivefor a player - ANY player. For example, a barmaid can look at a lv20-something PC and their incessant talky-talking in FAI and then scold him or her for sitting on their ass when there are demons in the night, ruining people's lives... same barmaid can, instead, tell a lv6 fighter that there is a raiding party of bandits nearby, which could be dispatched - if not even talked into doing something else, by a skilled negotiator or bluffer. Best fights are those you have won with your brain/mouth.



TL;DR:
There is no tl;dr version of this; if you don't like long texts or just don't like hearing other people's opinions, no matter how wrong, skip this. If you don't like my opinion, tough. Have a nice day, in any case.

Well said. There is a lot of truth to this. I still remember how I felt as a new player. There are some things that are just not solved by learning to play the game. Not sure how I feel about having to dump skills into professions but then again it might be fun! Yet outfitting the skill system that much differently and scripting all that is a big time consuming issue. One of the biggest things you mentioned is DMs. I got to say the new batch is really stepping up here. I have a couple of RP sessions with DMs that were spur of the moment things and not always needed to be in a party. I had a event just me and a DM one time it was the coolest thing ever.( SHOUT OUT TO DAVE THE SKELETON!!! HE WAS A BRAVE AND LOYAL SKELETON!)

As for the CRAFTING!? Yes I could not agree more on this. I have put in nearly every thread that goes out suggesting we change this and that or to nerf something and I just let them know that what we need is new PRCs and crafting. Mainly crafting. That would be the icing right now for a lot of players. However when we consistently back log the QC with requests to nerf this and that they do not focus on the crafting. So I would say we really need to open a thread that suggests we push crafting to #2 on the list of things to get done right behind major bugs from the last update.

[dedude]

3. Professions

As much as I loathe Haven as a place where cruel, unusual and tempting things happen, I greatly admire their profession system. Let me tell you a thing about Haven... it has MINING. And crafting. And fishing (don't, DON'T mention fishing that exist here... it is ridiculous). And many other things that you can do, that actually reward you in a sense of now just XP, but also being a part of a community that can form a viable economical bond. Miners specialize in mining, they get ore and gems for smiths and gem-cutters who then create items that may be enchanted by enchanters... and beyond all that, there are farmers and fishers who provide food and material for alchemists to create potions... it's a SYSTEM. One that slowly, but surely, gets both your crafting xp up and your actual xp up. So, in such a setting you don't have to be just another ale-drinking, axe-wielding bearded little man - you can be a master miner or a master smith, thus giving your character another dimension.

This. So much this. My old nwn1 server also had this, probably even more extensive than Haven. It was such a big part of the RP on the server. Crafting + resource gathering (mining, skinning, gem picking, foresting, etc) opens up for so much emergent gameplay. But it's a huge undertaking to implement it from scratch.

[Aspect of Sorrow]

But it's a huge undertaking to implement it from scratch.

Not really, there's easy to accomplish procedural implementations we can hat-trick into the module.

[dedude]

But it's a huge undertaking to implement it from scratch.

Not really, there's easy to accomplish procedural implementations we can hat-trick into the module.

I agree but that is just part of the implementation. You also have to factor in area changes to accomodate all the new spawnable natural resources, finding suitable areas for each resource, balancing the crafted items, the crafting recipies, tools and equipment needed for each profession, xp progression in each profession, etc. It really is big, but also a really exciting thing to work on. Would be HUGE for the server.

[Sun Wukong]

But no one is listening.

Here are some more detailed responses.


1) It is not entirely about reaching level 30 to make a character feel meaningfull, it is more about reaching the level where your character performs more or less how it is supposed to.

For example, my Sorcerer Gish is looking at the levels 10 and 22. My barbarian is looking at the level 23 because that is when he gets Epic Rage. For any sneak attacker I make, that level is usually whenever I get HiPS, and then Expose Weakness and Epic Precision. For a character with access to cleric spellbook - when do I get decent amount of casts for Divine Power. Etc. Etc. For someone else it could be that epic spell, or some feat, or ability, or whatever combination thereoff. Sometimes that point can be reached early, sometimes you need to reach level 30 - like with the 40% Self-Concealment.

2) As for limiting quests and make them grant one massive payoff. Usually the problem lies with what people want this massive quest reward to be. If it is too low, then for a large number of players it makes more sense to keep the current quests as they are. No matter how grueling the grind might be - in the long run you remain far better off. If the quests give a truly massive experience reward - then you make the following possible:

Day 1: Create a character and do the quests.
Day 2: RCR and create a new character to do the quests.
Day 3: RCR and create a new character to do the quests.
...
...
...
Day X: RCR and create a new character to do the quests for one last time.

It does not matter if it is dull - people will do it. I would do it - perhaps not more than once or twice per year - but I would do it nevertheless. And at that point you might just as well make the quest rewards so high that doing all the quests will make you reach mid or late epics all on their own.

Oh and, with no ECL race, and without multiclassing experience penalty, you need 300,000 points of experience to reach level 25. The currently repeatable quests give around 10k experience at the moment, so all you would have to do is use x30 multiplier on all quest rewards. But...

I would be in favor of these massive quest rewards, but... For example the quest to fill the strawmen in the field, would grant 6750 points of experience instead of 225 when refusing the reward... And there is a part of me that says that it might be a little too much... for filling some strawmen on a field filled with well aged and relatively peaceful rats.

3) As for RP exp cap - I have nothing against having it raised. But in the past I did have this blabbermouth character that could just walk to any campfire and start talking for 15-30 minutes and meet the RP exp cap... And sadly we cannot forget how it would be so much easier to just park two characters in some rarely used dungeon and have them spam nonsense. Plus, well, there are players who might feel it rather unfair if talking around a campfire gives better experience ratio than fighting monsters. After all, there is not much that can kill you there, beyond DM events and those rarely impose experience penalty on death.

Oh, and I might be mistaken, but I believe thet RP exp cap was already doubled.

4) I've seen these experience pools implemented on various servers - and part of me is always against them. For example on one server if I want to get the 'double experience' I would be forced to regularly partake in RP that does not exactly interest me in any meaningful way. Thus I have often deemed the double experience not to be worth it. Also, I doubt that si going to be changed no matter what iteration of the 'Experience Pool' you have in mind.

5) The level cap on chests hurts anyone who is not playing an optimal powerbuild. For example there are areas your character cannot yet do with your current equipment, and you cannot get better equipment because you cannot acquire loot because you went past an arbitary line drawn in the sand. Not to mention that since everyone can get some loot from an opened chest once per reset, what is the issue here?

And no matter how hard I try to think, for the past months I have not seen anyone grinding low level chests. Well, I did it about five times when the change came in - which was enough to get me that +2 and +3 equipment I currently have... So, if I am responsible for your complaints about it - then I am sorry for whatever inconvience I may have caused several months ago - but as I said... It is not exactly taking place any more.

6) Currently, it does not really matter all that much if you are unable to defeat bosses - you can make do without. Yet it still aggravates some how build x can solo boss y when build z cannot. Can you imagine the amount of aggravation if those bosses would become the best way to gain experience and loot? So it is not entirely just about the time spent on toolset.

7) And finally, the problem with harder dungeons is that people cannot always find anyone to party up with. Heck, few days ago I had to turn down an epic elven character trying to team up - because I did not have the time for it. A while later that elven character had a full group to go against a challenge my own character cannot yet even hope to overcome by himself.

Hidden: show

There seem to be this weird notion that any level below 30 sucks, and not until you reach that ultimate level will you be able to have fun and enjoy your character.

1) Yes, this is more or less the Unsolvable Issue. There are plenty of reasons behind this, of course, but I'd like to point out just 2: 1) when you have a sandbox with Levels 1–30, the lower-in-power levels will ALWAYS feel inadequate, and thus, the Players behind those "weaker" Characters will do whatever they can to "fix" the problem; 2) lack of Server Wide Campaign + regular DM Events that cater to low levels, so those PCs—and thus the Players behind them—can feel like having a low level PC can actually be MEANINGFUL to the Server (and not just an ego that sits out the fight or has little to offer the entrenched lvl 30 near god-like Characters that have been on BGTSCC for years).

But no one is listening.

Make the quests non-repeatable. Or at least with a level cap.

2) Some do have a level cap, currently. Nonetheless, it has been suggested many times in the past that Quests could be set to 1-time-per-PC, and drastically increase their 1-time payout. Thus, a newbie could gain some actual Levels on doing the quests right away, or, hold off until Epic Levels, and maybe even collect 1–2 levels from doing "The Quest Tour."

But no one is listening.

Double the cap on RP xp

3) Has been suggested many times before.

But no one is listening.

Add the XP pool that was suggested, but give it a low-ish cap so you need to go drain it regularly. This should alleviate at least one possible exploit.

4) Has also been suggested before, many times.

But no one is listening.

Re-introduce the level cap on chests. I hate seeing higher level characters running in mindless circles each reset, very immersion breaking.

5) Has been suggested before. But the reason it probably won't ever change is because the current paradigm seems to be to have Players chest-grind for low level items to sell at NPC merchants, so that they can acquire coin at Player-leisure, and then spend that coin at Epic Level NPC merchants (in the bloody, stinkin', immersion breaking Wal-Mart of the HELLZ!!!). So you'd have to convince some to change the change that was recently made to bring the Server to this point.

But no one is listening.

Bump the loot drops + xp from boss'es way up. This can include chests and treasures at the end of dungeons as well. Give people an incentive to group up and go do that hard dungeon instead of just rolling through the orc cave one more time.

6) Has been suggested before. But making difficult dungeons and setting the Loot drops requires someone to actually do this. That's volunteers and hours put into the Toolset.

Is anyone listening?

Challenge the area builders to come up with dungeons that require a group with multiple roles

There are already a few of these—the Devs have listened, from time to time. You'd be surprised about how many complaints are actually made because of this—people want to solo, mate!! And cooperation and grouping slows down the solo-loot-grind-free-for-all. Don't stop the rock!!!

But let's hope someone is listening!!

EDIT: Thing is, so much is actually said and discussed in private chats related to what the Server is about and where it is headed in the future. That the general Forum user is often kept in the dark, unintentionally I assume. Maecius was always a good chap by keeping the State of the Server regularly updated, and that really helps to show a sense of direction for BGTSCC. The mantra has been for a long time to not publicly say anything, so that one doesn't have to feel pressured to deliver. But I, for one, believe that more sunshine on the admin of the Server AND some detailing of what is being developed, helps the community-at-large feel like they are "in the know" and actually part of what is going on here...beside the Role-play IG aspect of the Server.

[SBlack]

It is a bit worrisome given the complacent attitude some seem to possess. This embarrassment of riches scenario can turn on it's head very quickly to become abject poverty in a matter of months or mere weeks.

If folk want new/returning players to become hooked you have to make an effort to include them in the RP, even when it doesn't exactly make sense to. The rules of any social community generally apply here. If you want the server to succeed in the long term you have to reach out and embrace folk even those you may not exactly like personally. Be inclusive, friendly, helpful, and otherwise create a positive environment so folk think about logging in and playing this game throughout the day . Go outside your comfort zone and help out newish players and give them a reason to come back time and again!

[Calodan]

I agree but that is just part of the implementation. You also have to factor in area changes to accomodate all the new spawnable natural resources, finding suitable areas for each resource, balancing the crafted items, the crafting recipies, tools and equipment needed for each profession, xp progression in each profession, etc. It really is big, but also a really exciting thing to work on. Would be HUGE for the server.

This is not likely to happen. It has been 6 years. 6 of them to implement crafting without needing to balance it for that. Quite frankly I would be very disappointed if we have to wait for that longer because of something like this. New players, Old Players and In between players are on this server. This thread is great and we should consider a lot of things but it is not just about the new guys either. Jobs and skill professions would just make all of us want RCR's and make crafting and other things take another 3+ years at the rate of our QC and Scripting since they have only their spare time and the more work it is from this stuff the less they do. We have like one true scripter in Valefort. Just think about that for a second.

[dedude]

No need for RCR, a full profession/crafting system will typically run independently on your current class(es).

[Rask]

If I could play a dude who's entire role was making weapons and Armour for people I would probably play that character.

[Hrafnar]

RE Chest Capping: I appreciate that it could hurt weaker builds, but from a new player's perspective it is off-putting when you get to level 3 or so and try the Hilltop Ruins for the first time and the only other player there is level 20+ on a semi-ooc loot run. This happened to me several times and in one case I was the offender at level 15.

I'm not criticizing the practice of looting but perhaps we could at least cap the areas meant for sub level 6? The focus of this topic being on the new player experience, after all.

Basically, as a fairly new player myself:

- Make the starting areas more intuitive i.e. put warnings on the higher level quests and make it easier to find the lower level quests. Change the CR1 on the Graveyard transition to CR2.

- Put a basic merchant in Maltz' or the Merchant League.

- Level cap the chests in the North Bandit Cave, Graveyard/grave cave and Hilltop Ruins. Level cap The Goods are Gone and Balduran Mail Delivery.

- Make the road South of Wyrm's crossing a bit safer so you won't die trying to get to FAI.

- When death is fixed, make it so that you can respawn in Soubar.

This is based partly on my own experience but also on several of the new players that have joined since I have. I have been tempted to make an alt whose sole purpose is to help out newbies with finding gear, appropriate quests and directions. Older players seem to worry that the game will become to easy, or get harder, but I don't see how any of these changes will have a real impact on any PC over level 5, other than those two quests.

[chad878262]

Maybe the beginning area NPC's could point new players to Sorcerous Sundries? A potion of Mage Armor and Barkskin purchased with the initial 1K gold is a great way to improve survivability in the early levels (+7 AC), but I feel like many new players never think to do this.

Honestly the path to FAI can be survived at level 2 (1 with luck) just by drinking those two potions and running to the other side, though it would be best if the spawns were simply placed further from the road. In any case, the FAI, while an RP hub is not really a great place to go until you have a PC of at least level 5. Even then, you will need a group to take on the first cloakwood area until at least level 7 so I'm not sure how much sense it makes. Basically once you can get to the FAI from the Hilltop ruins you are ready to try grouping up and taking on Cloakwood, so it's sort of a built in filter to ensure low levels don't go too far beyond their capabilities.

[Rhifox]

Maybe the beginning area NPC's could point new players to Sorcerous Sundries? A potion of Mage Armor and Barkskin purchased with the initial 1K gold is a great way to improve survivability in the early levels (+7 AC), but I feel like many new players never think to do this.

Or they just don't want to waste their limited funds on consumables. It doesn't matter how much easier things might be with consumables, when you're poor the last thing you want to do is put money into something that doesn't last longer than a few minutes and that you don't strictly need.

[chad878262]

Or they just don't want to waste their limited funds on consumables. It doesn't matter how much easier things might be with consumables, when you're poor the last thing you want to do is put money into something that doesn't last longer than a few minutes and that you don't strictly need.

Mage Armor potion costs 50 gold and lasts 30 minutes... Barkskin costs around 100 if I recall and lasts for 90 minutes. I think the player should be able to more than double the cost of the potions in that time period and especially at 1st level with low hit points it's more than worth the cost.