sneaky lock

[aaron22]

ok i am debating two different builds that would utilize both SA damage and EB to bring down foes. one has hips and looks easier to play, but the other has more skills, epic dodge, PTWF, but lacks hips and eldrich master. while also having +1ECL.

hips lock
http://nwn2db.com/build/?263119

epic dodge lock
http://nwn2db.com/build/?263152
usually 15/15 splits are a bad idea, but i am unsure about this one.

also being as warlock is a caster but utilizes DC's differently i am unsure how this will apply with hideous blow as i have never played a lock with it. the DC's on these may and is very likely way too low. getting her buff invocations dispelled too often. just unsure when it comes to lock DC's and dispells.

[freekender]

I would recommend going 14 Warlock / 3 Rogue / 10 Daggerspell / 3 SD or 14 Warlock / 3 Bodyguard / 10 Daggerspell / 3 SD. This way you have full invocation and 27 CL with Parcticed Spellcaster.

You don't need Epic Dodge, as you can pick Retributive Invisibility as a Dark Invocation, which means free infinite 50 % concealment. DC's are not so importatnt here, as mobs will be nearly death with a couple of SA with Hideows Blow plus Vitriolic Blast.

[aaron22]

DSM is non evil which is not what i was going for.

[chad878262]

Kind of messed up that the only PRC that advances warlock caster level (aside from hellfire) is DSM and it requires non-evil... Wonder what it is that requires a DSM to be non-evil anyway, is that a lore thing or was it just implemented that way for this server? Based on past discussions I think it probably is because it's that way in PnP, but I have no idea.

[aaron22]

Kind of messed up that the only PRC that advances warlock caster level (aside from hellfire) is DSM and it requires non-evil... Wonder what it is that requires a DSM to be non-evil anyway, is that a lore thing or was it just implemented that way for this server? Based on past discussions I think it probably is because it's that way in PnP, but I have no idea.

*shrugs*

[chad878262]

You could go Lock 22 / Assassin 8 for HiPS, 4d6 sneak dice and Invoker level 26 (sorry if that's the HiPS build, I'm at work so can't look at NWN2db). Another option might be W/SD/WD. Honestly even just a W26/SD4 would work fine, I think.

[aaron22]

my hips lock build has 3 levels rogue for EW 9 levels sin for 5d6DA. but 4 SD would be just losing 2d6 SA. that is like losing two epic feats... sorta. will the lock buffs get dispelled if i only have 22 CL? on dark invocations? and would it also dispell my hideous even if it refreshes?

[chad878262]

my hips lock build has 3 levels rogue for EW 9 levels sin for 5d6DA. but 4 SD would be just losing 2d6 SA. that is like losing two epic feats... sorta.

Not exactly. You lose sneak dice, but you do gain hideous blow/invoaction dice... Only 1 APR applies hideous blow, but it also applies even when enemy is not flat footed. More sneak dice are better, but you won't have epic precision either so in some cases the extra blast dice will be better.

will the lock buffs get dispelled if i only have 22 CL? on dark invocations? and would it also dispell my hideous even if it refreshes?

Yes, but it is not the worst thing in the world for a Warlock. Hideous blow getting dispelled should reapply before your next attack, but as for your other invocations, since you have unlimited casts you can always cast retributive invisibility and rebuff if you get dispelled. CL22 is pretty low and it might get annoying since even regular dispels will have ~15% chance to work against you, while Greater dispels can have ~40% chance at CL20 dispel. It's a matter of what is most important. If you can fit Practiced Invoker to get to CL26 it will make you immune to regular dispel and even a CL20 Greater dispel will only have a 20% chance against you. However, if there are other feats you deem necessary you always have retributive invisibility/HiPS to get away if you are dispelled and at risk of the fugue.

[freekender]

DSM is non evil which is not what i was going for.

Oups, I did not realize about that.

my hips lock build has 3 levels rogue for EW 9 levels sin for 5d6DA. but 4 SD would be just losing 2d6 SA. that is like losing two epic feats... sorta.

Not exactly. You lose sneak dice, but you do gain hideous blow/invoaction dice... Only 1 APR applies hideous blow, but it also applies even when enemy is not flat footed. More sneak dice are better, but you won't have epic precision either so in some cases the extra blast dice will be better.

You could go Lock 22 / Assassin 8 for HiPS, 4d6 sneak dice and Invoker level 26 (sorry if that's the HiPS build, I'm at work so can't look at NWN2db). Another option might be W/SD/WD. Honestly even just a W26/SD4 would work fine, I think.

will the lock buffs get dispelled if i only have 22 CL? on dark invocations? and would it also dispell my hideous even if it refreshes?

Yes, but it is not the worst thing in the world for a Warlock. Hideous blow getting dispelled should reapply before your next attack, but as for your other invocations, since you have unlimited casts you can always cast retributive invisibility and rebuff if you get dispelled. CL22 is pretty low and it might get annoying since even regular dispels will have ~15% chance to work against you, while Greater dispels can have ~40% chance at CL20 dispel. It's a matter of what is most important. If you can fit Practiced Invoker to get to CL26 it will make you immune to regular dispel and even a CL20 Greater dispel will only have a 20% chance against you. However, if there are other feats you deem necessary you always have retributive invisibility/HiPS to get away if you are dispelled and at risk of the fugue.

Chad is right on his posts. You could do well with almost any HiPSing warlock. Nevertheless, I would make a pair of considerations if you want your build to be more Warlock than Rogue:
- Go, at least, for Dark Foresight and Retributive Invisibility; together are a strong defensive combo. Consider taking a 3rd Dark Invocation if you can fit the 20th lvl of Warlock in your build.
- Take Practiced Invoker. In adition to the +4CL, it means +2d6 to your blast (x1.5 with Eldritch Master).

If going for a more Rogue-like build, you can play more with the SA classes. Just think about what type you prefer.

[aaron22]

both builds have practiced invoker.

my intention is to have kind of a best of both worlds build. opportunist. if i drop 3 rogue levels on the hips lock build then i would lose EW. kind of not wanting to lose that.

i dont love the adding the SD RP to either build.

i like the sin hipser has VF but only +28 melee BAB hurts a bit on 7 attacks. but has 5d6 DA+2d6 SA+11d6 (x1.5) EB.

the epic dodge lock has a higher AB, more attacks, combat insight, epic dodge, skills for days. without hips i wonder how effective using invis for sneaking. 8d6 SA+10d6 (x1.5) EB. i could also utilize gear for survival in combat instead of sneaking and just have switch out gear for sneaking.

[Sun Wukong]

Kind of messed up that the only PRC that advances warlock caster level (aside from hellfire) is DSM and it requires non-evil... Wonder what it is that requires a DSM to be non-evil anyway, is that a lore thing or was it just implemented that way for this server? Based on past discussions I think it probably is because it's that way in PnP, but I have no idea.

Yeah, it is a PnP alignment requirement. Daggerspell Mage and Shaper both belong to a generic goodly aligned organisation called Daggerspell Guardians from Complete Adventurer sourcebook. Basically, you could imagine them as something close to the Harpers with a clearer focus on spellcasting and daggers.

I suppose what is written in here is close enoough to whatever was in the actual sourcebook: http://www.realmshelps.net/faerun/organ ... pell.shtml

But honestly speaking, I do not think many would even notice if the alignment restriction were to vanish in favour of making the PRC more like Arcane Trickster or Eldritch Knight in a way.

I mean, has there ever been any 'Daggerspell' faction on the server? (Beyond a very loose interpretation of the Weave Masters...)

[Kanada]

I think the real problem has always been a refusal to add warlock progression to PRCs that could be used for it, like frost mage

[aaron22]

eldrich knight doesnt even provide progression and it shares a otherworldly magical background. but to be honest i do not know why eldritch knights are so called when the mechanics of them revolve around arcane magics. which to the FR setting is not considered otherworldly exactly.

[Sun Wukong]

EK popped up in 3rd edition before Warlock, or something like that. Thus the 'Eldritch' is just a catch all word.