With Bladesinger...why not Spellsword?

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Poll: Spellsword PrC needed...or not

Yes, this PrC is a TOP priority in my opinion
20
39%
Yes, this PrC is a Low As Dirt priority
7
14%
No, this PrC is unneeded at this time
24
47%
 
Total votes: 51

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Steve
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With Bladesinger...why not Spellsword?

Unread post by Steve »

http://alcyius.com/dndtools/classes/spe ... index.html

Spellsword

(Complete Warrior variant, p. 79)

The dream of melding magic and weaponplay is fulfilled in the person of the spellsword.

Requirements

Base Attack Bonus: +4

Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 6 ranks

Spells: Able to cast 2nd-level arcane spells.
Special: Must have defeated a foe through force of arms alone, without recourse to spellcasting.
Feats: Proficiency with all simple and martial weapons and with all armor (heavy, medium, and light).

Hit die

d8
Skill points

2 + Int
Class Features

Spells per Day:
At every odd-numbered level, a spell sword gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (improved chance of controlling or rebuking undead, metamagic or item creation feats, and so on), save for an increased effective level of spellcasting. If a character had more than one spellcasting class before becoming a spellsword, he must decide to which class he adds the new level for purposes of determining spells per day.

Ignore Spell Failure (Ex): Beginning at 1st level, a spell sword's hard work and practice at merging spellcraft with weaponplay starts to pay off. As an extraordinary ability, he ignores a portion of the arcane spell failure chance associated with using armor. This reduction starts at 10%and gradually increases to 30%, as shown on the class table. A spellsword subtracts the given percentage value from his total spell failure chance, if any. For instance, a character wearing scale mail and carrying a small shield normally has a spell failure chance of 30%, but this drops to only 20% for a 1st-level spellsword.

Bonus Feat:
At 2nd level, a spellsword advances his art, gaining a bonus feat. This bonus feat must be either a metamagic feat or one drawn from the list of bonus feats allowed to a fighter (see Table 5—1 on page 90 of the Player's Handbook).

Channel Spell (Sp): At 4th level, a spellsword can channel any spell he can cast into his melee weapon. Using this ability requires a move action, and the spellsword uses up the prepared spell or spell slot just as if he had cast the spell. The channeled spell affects the next target that the spell sword successfully attacks with his weapon (saving throws and spell resistance still apply). Even if the spell normally affects an area or is a ray, it affects only the target. The spell is discharged from the weapon, which can then hold an other spell. A spellsword can channel his spells into only one weapon at a time. Spells channeled into a weapon are lost if not used in 8 hours.

Multiple Channel Spell (Sp): A 10th-level spellsword can channel two spells into his melee weapon, using a move action to channel each one. Both channeled spells affect the next target the spellsword successfully attacks with his weapon, in the order the spells were placed into the weapon. As with the channel spell class feature, saving throws and spell resistance apply normally. Each time a spellsword uses multiple channel spell, two of his five channel spell uses per day are expended.

WHY SHOULD ELVES HAVE ALL THE FUN?!?
Last edited by Steve on Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:40 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: With Bladesinger...why not Spellsword?

Unread post by Blackhorizon »

Steve wrote:
WHY SHOULD ELVES HAVE ALL THE FUN?!?
If this is your sole argument then I'll have to point out: Why dwarven, Thayan, Lathander, Selune, Gond or any other similiarly limited option? Just saying.
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Re: fighter 30?

Unread post by Steve »

Blackhorizon wrote:
Steve wrote:
WHY SHOULD ELVES HAVE ALL THE FUN?!?
If this is your sole argument then I'll have to point out: Why dwarven, Thayan, Lathander, Selune, Gond or any other similiarly limited option? Just saying.
Nah, wasn't even an argument, but a question, and...I can never resist taking a dig against elves! :twisted:

So my question still stands: with Bladesinger coded, why not add in Spellsword, since it is almost identical and I would hope not be too much work to do?

Talsorian the Conjuransmuter - The (someTIMEs) Traveler

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Re: With Bladesinger...why not Spellsword?

Unread post by Valefort »

As is it would make every auto still gish rather obsolete, wizard 10/ dragonslayer 3/ Spellsword 7/ EK 10 : http://nwn2db.com/build/?263797

Bonus feat for spellsword is IPA

Uses MFP, 0% ASF.

AC : 10 (base) + 3 (tumble) + 3 (DEX) + 8 (mithral full plate) + 1 (LOH) + 6(IMA) +4 (shield) +5 (shadow shield) +4 (dodge) +4 (deflection) = 48 AC

AB : 25 (BAB) + 12 (STR) + 1 (weapon focus) + 5 (GMW) +4 (GH) - 6 (IPA) = 41 AB with IPA on

Damage : 2d4 (base damage) +5 (GMW) + 18 (1.5*STR mod) + 12 (IPA) = 40 damage, crit on 15-20

All of this with CL 29. Also believe it or not but I didn't know I was plundering another PRC feature when I made the custom celerity song for bladesinger, why not making something original instead ?
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Re: fighter 30?

Unread post by Steve »

So...you're saying Spellsword is too overpowered for BGTSCC?

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Re: With Bladesinger...why not Spellsword?

Unread post by chad878262 »

There are two differences that make it a power creep over Bladesinger.

1. It can cast in medium armor with no ASF or use a light armor and shield, so long as it stays at 30% total or less. BladeSinger only can use light armor, cannot use shields and must pump INT if it wants bonus AC (INT 20 would only give +2 AC while 30 is required for +5, making STR or DEX incapable of reaching very high numbers unless AC and spells are sacrificed).

2. Bladesinger has heavy Feat requirements, leaving very little room for player selected feats, especially when 'necessary' feats for certain builds are considered such as weapon finesse for rapier, melee proficiency for EK. Either you sacrifice Caster Level to add in SB or fighter for some extra feats or you really only have 1 or 2 feats you can pick outside of what is required for a viable build. This class has no feat requirement that can't be gained by taking DragonSlayer allowing for more power through feat selection.
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Re: fighter 30?

Unread post by Steve »

So...are you guys saying Spellsword in its OG form is too overpowered for BGTSCC? :shock:

Talsorian the Conjuransmuter - The (someTIMEs) Traveler

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Re: With Bladesinger...why not Spellsword?

Unread post by chad878262 »

Steve wrote:So...are you guys saying Spellsword in its OG form is too overpowered for BGTSCC? :shock:
I personally didn't say too OP (didn't see anyone else specify that either). I simply stated it is power creep over and above bladesinger, which you called out for comparison. However, this said I do think it essentially is 'free access' to auto-still-lite which I don't like. Bladesinger built properly gets the 10th level around when a W/DS/EK would get auto-still 1 or 2(in epics). This class is able to cast in Leather at 1st level, which it will be able to take at level 11 at the latest, probably closer to ~5 or 6 if you don't mind CL ~27 or 28 instead of 29. Depending on how quickly that 10% improves to 30% it could have it by level 15 or 16, which is very powerful at that level.

So yes, in it's current form it has a couple of special abilities that are OP in the current iteration of the class as listed. Maybe not at 30, but from early to mid and even early epic levels it will be a step or two ahead of what any other gish can do. On top of this you can qualify for the class by building a gish the same way you would build it anyway and save 3 epic feats over how you build it today. Whereas Bladesinger is a race-specific flavor choice, this would be a class you have no reason notevery reason to take as a Gish. It is 'must have' with no RP requirements at all.

EDIT: Ugh, the double negatives!!!
Last edited by chad878262 on Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: fighter 30?

Unread post by Valefort »

Steve wrote:So...are you guys saying Spellsword in its OG form is too overpowered for BGTSCC? :shock:
Uh, yes ? That wouldn't be a first.
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Re: fighter 30?

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Valefort wrote:
Steve wrote:So...are you guys saying Spellsword in its OG form is too overpowered for BGTSCC? :shock:
Uh, yes ? That wouldn't be a first.
Is QC willing to tone it down for BGTSCC? Slap on some costlier Reqs. and/or some RP reqs.?

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Re: With Bladesinger...why not Spellsword?

Unread post by chad878262 »

We have generally been willing to discuss any suggestion, but there is a long line of work items and this would be a fairly low priority (IMO, not reflection of QC or staff in general).
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Re: fighter 30?

Unread post by Calodan »

Steve wrote:
Valefort wrote:
Steve wrote:So...are you guys saying Spellsword in its OG form is too overpowered for BGTSCC? :shock:
Uh, yes ? That wouldn't be a first.
Is QC willing to tone it down for BGTSCC? Slap on some costlier Reqs. and/or some RP reqs.?
I agree this would be neat and give at least another option in a build for Arcane Gish with EK and or DS. I also agree with Chad that it should be LOW priority in the immediate.

One thing to me really stands out as needing to be done before much of anything else at this point. CRAFTING!!!
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Re: With Bladesinger...why not Spellsword?

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chad878262 wrote:We have generally been willing to discuss any suggestion, but there is a long line of work items and this would be a fairly low priority (IMO, not reflection of QC or staff in general).
Well Chad, I respect that—QC has their own internal list and actionable items, as well, the Devs/Scripters do what they wish.

However...though I may be blinded by desire, considering Bladesinger is in-game now, tested and working, would not Spellsword by more or less a copy/paste job (at least mechanically speaking)?

And, I say this not to entice rage among Staff, but was Bladesinger at all a priority? It seems mostly a project that Valefort wished to see made, and he did it, and it was awesome, but...not a priority, right?

That said, shall I offer some management of the OP aspects?

For example, one may consider to tag onto this PrC:
  • – Feat Reg.: Weapon Focus: Any Slashing Weapon
    – Feat Reg.: Spell Focus: Concentration
    - Skill Reg., Tumble: 10 points
Something I personally think would support the Spellsword RP.

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Re: With Bladesinger...why not Spellsword?

Unread post by Valefort »

How was Bladesinger NOT a priority ? :P So many people have been waiting for it since I started playing here. It's the same logic for Dreadmaster and then the Orc PRC that has yet ot be developed.
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Re: fighter 30?

Unread post by Steve »

Valefort wrote:How was Bladesinger NOT a priority ? :P So many people have been waiting for it since I started playing here. It's the same logic for Dreadmaster and then the Orc PRC that has yet ot be developed.
Okay, okay! Shall I make a poll about how many people want Spellsword?!? :lol:

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