'Wilderness / Open PVP area'

Heimdallr · Unread post by **Heimdallr** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:20 pm

The only people that will leave the server are...

...are unsatisfied pvp players. The funniest part to add is that in my career here, 80% best rp were from pvp players, honestly.

SBlack · Unread post by **SBlack** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:34 pm

The longer the argument goes on I realize that nothing need be done at all. Everything is already in place. Players want antagonistic RP that leads to PVP? Go set things up with friends or likeminded folk. There is a PVP fan club here thread somewhere. It will take a bit of effort and coordination, but not all that much. As long as all those involved do the RP/PVP out of the way of others and don't attempt to drag others into the conflict you wont have any complaints from outside parties.

Face · Unread post by **Face** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:47 pm

SBlack wrote:The longer the argument goes on I realize that nothing need be done at all. Everything is already in place. Players want antagonistic RP that leads to PVP? Go set things up with friends or likeminded folk. There is a PVP fan club here thread somewhere. It will take a bit of effort and coordination, but not all that much. As long as all those involved do the RP/PVP out of the way of others and don't attempt to drag others into the conflict you wont have any complaints from outside parties.

They can do that where ever they like if they all consent any way.

Darkwind · Unread post by **Darkwind** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:56 pm

I live in a house in a large city. I make cookies in my house, entertain guests there. I have a fairly normal peaceful life with little true danger. This is a good way to be. It promotes nice neighbors, conversation, and a general sense of well being.

*However*, in the same city I live in, 15 miles away, there is a neighborhood where people party all night. They play loud music. They smoke and drink. They curse and fight. I never see these people in my neighborhood. They only do those things 15 miles away out of my sight. They never ask me to go there. They don't know me personally, and do not care whether I live or die in my nice neighborhood.

However, I have asked the mayor to condemn their neighborhood even though it absolutely does not impact me in any way the sheer fact that it exists is anathema to my existence.

You follow everyone? If you do not, in this absurd analogy see the crux of the issue here, I don't think you have been paying attention. You are talking about a walled-garden that is enter at your own risk. Secondarily, this is a small playerbase server where everyone sort of knows everyone with active DMs. If this place turns into an OOC gankfest, guess what? DMs can give a gentle slap a time or two, and then start wielding the banhammer copiously.

I -like- PvP and RP. Conflict is a fundamental part of the DnD universe. No bot controlled AI creature will ever truly provide it in a meaningful way. When you create an area (or better yet many areas) with this set of rules you empower the players by saying "We assume you are mature adults who understand RP and consequence." If the players prove otherwise on repeated occasion? Refer to banhammer... why is this being made so absurdly complicated like so much that is talked about on this server?

Try it! If it works, keep it, if it doesn't turn it off. We are not launching spacecraft here people, this is fairly simple stuff...

p.s. "Oh but then there a special areas I cannot access... yes, its called the UD or the Surface. These exist now, this is no different."

V'rass · Unread post by **V'rass** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:58 pm

Amen to that.

Face · Unread post by **Face** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:02 pm

Darkwind wrote:I live in a house in a large city. I make cookies in my house, entertain guests there. I have a fairly normal peaceful life with little true danger. This is a good way to be. It promotes nice neighbors, conversation, and a general sense of well being.

*However*, in the same city I live in, 15 miles away, there is a neighborhood where people party all night. They play loud music. They smoke and drink. They curse and fight. I never see these people in my neighborhood. They only do those things 15 miles away out of my sight. They never ask me to go there. They don't know me personally, and do not care whether I live or die in my nice neighborhood.

However, I have asked the mayor to condemn their neighborhood even though it absolutely does not impact me in any way the sheer fact that it exists is anathema to my existence.

You follow everyone? If you do not, in this absurd analogy see the crux of the issue here, I don't think you have been paying attention. You are talking about a walled-garden that is enter at your own risk. Secondarily, this is a small playerbase server where everyone sort of knows everyone with active DMs. If this place turns into an OOC gankfest, guess what? DMs can give a gentle slap a time or two, and then start wielding the banhammer copiously.

I -like- PvP and RP. Conflict is a fundamental part of the DnD universe. No bot controlled AI creature will ever truly provide it in a meaningful way. When you create an area (or better yet many areas) with this set of rules you empower the players by saying "We assume you are mature adults who understand RP and consequence." If the players prove otherwise on repeated occasion? Refer to banhammer... why is this being made so absurdly complicated like so much that is talked about on this server?

Try it! If it works, keep it, if it doesn't turn it off. We are not launching spacecraft here people, this is fairly simple stuff...

p.s. "Oh but then there a special areas I cannot access... yes, its called the UD or the Surface. These exist now, this is no different."

This made me chuckle and i cant argue with your logic *Tumbs up*

Egg Shen · Unread post by **Egg Shen** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:20 pm

I have lots of ideas for something like this.

Roughly a decade ago, I tried to organize a pvp "game" where the characters are essentially hired studs and studettes in the grander machinations of the powerful and/or super rich. I can't find the post in the archives, but the gist was as follows:

One group is hired to deliver some documents or some such. The man hiring you knows that there will be an attempt by his rival to take said documents, so he is paying well for successful delivery.

Said rival is indeed hiring a strike team to intercept the package. He is paying well as he knows his nemesis has hired extremely capable couriers.

That's the gist. I had originally tried to set it up so that it would need as little assistance from the dm's as possible. In this case, we would need a custom item that drops on player death. However, if we actually had DM support for a concept such as this, like some npc's that do the "matchmaking"/hiring of characters in game (obviously would need to set up some OOC parameters to make it challenging), and a shadowy smuggler's road that parallels the Lion's Way and is known to be a pvp zone, I think we could make it be very interesting.

An arena outside of Soubar would probably work as well. We'd obviously have to tailor our RP a little so that the arena isn't considered a "to the death" type thing in order to avoid the obvious weirdness that comes from dying 100 times in character. We could make it be a gold sink and a way to earn some coin at the same time (i.e. you have to pay to play and the house takes a cut of every winner's pay-out). Just make it be a natural arena with rock walls and such, rather than a fancy one like the Gate has.

Also, as has been noted above, it's entirely possible to organize events yourself. Long ago, I hosted a pretty large tournament (back when the arena was still inside the city) with what I think were a fairly balanced set of rules. The prize was a million gold to the winner

. It had a pretty good turnout and I think most people had fun.

Still, with dm support, we could come up with some fun, (semi)balanced, and roleplay relevant ways for our more aggressive characters to get their cvc on without interrupting the rp of those less inclined to such tomfoolery.

Obviously, I'm all for it.

Heimdallr · Unread post by **Heimdallr** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:04 am

The biggest issue of dividing server to pvp locations, create a arena-based location or organize pvp tournaments is, that people think that serwer will immediately die or something. People are trying to prevent others from leaving server, or ruining fun. Funny fact, because this kind of thinking makes people leave and ruin their fun also. There will be always pvp in NWN1/2 the issue here is that many players that probably don't like pvp, try to prohibit it because they "think" about what 'could' happend. You cannot decide for others that are standing on the other side of the wall, but you can give it a freedom. From this discusion many times people say that we already got arena...and we can gather players through forum. We can also say that ud is full of happy players, now look at these awesome options!

To me these sound more like - lets keep them(pvp players) in the sewers, give them delusion of life, its good right? I mean, they got so many options...

Another notable thing, you say about pvp trolls, but does 100% rp/pve don't have trolls or abusers? impossible! how will we deal with them? oh wait, we are dealing with them all the time and it is working.

All in all. Try, then gather feedback and instead of giving up in worst case - upgrade it.

Touri · Unread post by **Touri** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:12 am

Only if it comes with permadeath strikes. Also, all assassination sshould come with permadeath strikes. Let's end the farce of people not be able to be truly killed.

I have to reply to that, because I often saw that suggestion before. That would be really funny. Let us kill all the few mainly active guild players and their few leaders, who needed often years to get a guild work that well. That would be what you would try to do with your enemy guilds icly. Or f. e. the player character got killed that was needed for an ongoing plot, because only he got the needed information. In my opinion the result would be many dying guilds and a dying server, leaving back a lot of angry players and maybe some happy pvp powergamers, who endlessly discuss about the still unfair balancing. I have seen it more than once, that a guild goes completly inactive, when their guild leaders left. Just imagine the guilds without the characters Elvina, Ameris, Luke, Fingal, Mendel, Nai, Vendor, Kahanak, Alexandra, Eowien, Selengil, Arkaine, Erza, Terri, Netanya, Maddy, Kory, Greil ect. Forcing another player character to retire through permadeath strikes by an lousy pvp balance, bad mechanics or even more lousy assasinations with all that kind of aftermath discussions, is the last thing I want for BGTSCC. In my opinion no player should have the possibility to force another player to retire through pvp or rp. I am very glad that this is ruled like that.

Conserning an open PVP area, I think we already have open PVP in most areas anyway. Also the PVP balance is so bad, that I never would get the idea to go for any really serious pvp at NWN2. I played pvp for 6 years on a NWN1 PVP Mod (10 vs 10 all chars were lvl20 and had the access to the same items). I never liked PVP on any PW. Maybe that is why I am very biased here and can't see any fun in it having pvp with completly different gear. My old NWKnights(PVP) community tried to transfer our nwn1 modul to nwn2 and make a fair pvp modul. They totally failed, because of that many bugs and the ridiculous bad balancing. I think, if you want pvp then go and play Heros of Storm, League of Legend, Defense of the Ancientsm or try to build a new NWN2 pvp modul. I haven't seen any good pvp modul for NWN2 at all, and actually I don't wonder by the broken balance/mechanic. Noone would have the time to fix it all. If it will ever happen, you can call me in here.
We only would have a lot more balancing discussion and more pvp powerbuilds. Though, a real balancing we only would get through changing a lot of things in my opinion. The work would be endless, the changes very groundbraking and we never would get a good result. In my opinion the time of the staff shouldn't be wasted for anything like that.

This have been the balances for the NWK mod to make it playable and fun. You will see, that it would be really groundbraking:

Hidden: show

Bad Omens · Unread post by **Bad Omens** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:31 am

Why do people want to over complicate this?

Just create the area, have server lore/RP support it and make sure it isn't smack in the middle of the server landscape. This might not be simple addition but it certainly isn't nuclear physics either.

If you want to see the idea killed by simply throwing out implausible ideas in an attempt to attach them to the original post and concept......please don't, it's not necessary and quite disheartening.

DM Creo · Unread post by **DM Creo** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:17 am

It is my personal opinion that this is a very good idea. It would be a fun way for players that enjoy PvP and conflict RP to get to practice it more freely. Yes the arena in the farmlands does give some outlet for this style of play but it is very limited. Many characters are not allowed in to that area, Drow, Grey Orcs or anyone banished from BG. Also even in the arena the rules of BG still apply, No devil summoning or undead and certainly no ambushing. On top of this it is simply to small to have a proper wargames style battle and there is nothing there worth fighting over. Comparing the two is much like comparing apples and oranges.

One thing that makes BG great is that we endeavor (or should endeavor) to cater to many styles of play. No one style is superior to another just different. I have already come up with some solid ideas how to utilize an area like this on the DM side. Ways to create all kinds of conflict and PvP oriented events for people that would enjoy them. Yet, what really makes this idea great in my mind, is that if you are not a player that would enjoy the RP that an area like this could create or the mindless bloodshed with in it, You simply do not have to go there. There will be no penalty for ignoring this area. It will be nothing but advantageous to those that enjoy it.

aaron22 · Unread post by **aaron22** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:43 am

it is just this simple. for (x) amount of time. there is (y) that everyone would want. it is hard to find and so heavy that even the strongest orc can barely walk with it. if you can walk it back to (z) then you get the reward.

lets call the reward adamantium ore. everytime you complete the sequence, you get 1 ore. these ore pieces can be ONLY traded to Kraak Helzak, Uruk Lurra, Balders Gate, Candlekeep, Doron Amar, Gullykin, Sshamath W/E for something special and specific if enough are gathered. These pieces are non tradeable.

catch is the area is no rest/no save, dimension lock, the adamantium casts dispell magic (DC40?) periodically, causes 95% slower walk speed.

if you do not want this, then you do not have to participate, if only one player cashes in on it all, then no body is hurt and we all just move on. if alot of players participate and creates a solid RP experience with fun and exciting play, then we all win.

flipside43 · Unread post by **flipside43** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:17 am

Except this isn't really about catering to different play styles, this is changing the rules for what appears to be a single map. That was the OP. Rules which were put in place to protect players. People can still enjoy PvP and conflict RP without getting sniped when they look away from the screen. Is the only way PvPers enjoy themselves is when they get to jump people? NWN2 PvP is a joke anyway and all about who hits first and smartest. I recall people have a hard enough time figuring out the rules for PvP at the FAI, how is this suppose to work? It's only going to make things worse with people's understanding of PvP rules, not better.

DM Creo wrote:It is my personal opinion that this is a very good idea. It would be a fun way for players that enjoy PvP and conflict RP to get to practice it more freely. Yes the arena in the farmlands does give some outlet for this style of play but it is very limited. Many characters are not allowed in to that area, Drow, Grey Orcs or anyone banished from BG. Also even in the arena the rules of BG still apply, No devil summoning or undead and certainly no ambushing. On top of this it is simply to small to have a proper wargames style battle and there is nothing there worth fighting over. Comparing the two is much like comparing apples and oranges.

One thing that makes BG great is that we endeavor (or should endeavor) to cater to many styles of play. No one style is superior to another just different. I have already come up with some solid ideas how to utilize an area like this on the DM side. Ways to create all kinds of conflict and PvP oriented events for people that would enjoy them. Yet, what really makes this idea great in my mind, is that if you are not a player that would enjoy the RP that an area like this could create or the mindless bloodshed with in it, You simply do not have to go there. There will be no penalty for ignoring this area. It will be nothing but advantageous to those that enjoy it.

aaron22 · Unread post by **aaron22** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:30 am

@ flipside

i really doubt that the FAI is going to be the setting for the open PvP area.

look away for a second? if you are in a specific zone (not the FAI

) where everyone knows its open PvP, and you get mauled because you "looked away" then you will shake your fist at your luck and move on. it is like any other PvP arena. attention will likely be pretty high and fast paced if the zone is populated. looking away? do you "look away" when you solo the balor?

Planehopper · Unread post by **Planehopper** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:37 am

Why would we reward OOC with things that aren't available through RP? This whole idea runs counter to everything this server has ever been about.

You think the requests for power creeping additions, nerfing complaints, class balance issues, equipment balance, and mechanics-over RP are bad now?

Try making this game about some arena-style ooc bash fests and see where the focus follows.

Why don't we set up a second, separate,server for this? Run a free for all JEGS on a 2nd server. It's a whole new concept being requested here. Give it a whole new server.

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