PrC Master of Chains (!!!Work in Progress!!!)
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- K'yon Oblodra
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PrC Master of Chains (!!!Work in Progress!!!)
Master of Chains
The Master of Chains is a canny opportunist whose intimidating presence is capable of inciting hardened soldiers into a panic. Using mystical martial techniques first pioneered by chain devils in the early days of the Blood War, a Master of Chains can gain an unnatural degree of control over his weapon, enhancing its damage potential and even allowing him to use it as a armor.
Requirements:
Race: Any
Alignment: Non-good.
Basic Attack Bonus: +4
Skills: Intimidate 4 ranks
Feats: Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Combat Expertise, Knockdown, Improved Knockdown, Disarm, Improved Disarm
Class Features:
- Hit Die: d10
- Base Attack Bonus: High
- High Saves: Fortitude
- Weapon Proficiencies: None
- Armor Proficiencies: None
- Skill Points: 2 + Int Modifier.
- Class Skills: Craft Alchemy, Craft Armor, Craft Weapon, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Tumble, Taunt
Class Abilities:
Level 1: Punishing Lash
Level 2: Scare
Level 3: Chain Armor +1
Level 4: Chain Bind
Level 5: Greater Punishing Lash, Tactical Expertise +2
Level 6: Chain Armor +2, Spiked Chain Armor(Su)
Level 7: Constant Vigilance, Cheap Shot
Level 8: Tactical Expertise +4
Level 9: Chain Armor +3, Ironclad
Level 10: Circling Death
Punishing Lash: The Master of Chains is so adapt at using his chains to fight multiple opponents, he lashes at the next once an opponent has fallen.
Specifics: If the character kills an opponent, he gets a free attack against an opponent who is within weapon range. This is limited to one use per round. This feat does not qualify as Cleave feat for class prerequisites.
Use: Automatic.
Scare: A Master of Chains may induce fear into his enemies as per the Fear spell with a duration of 5 rounds + half of class levels in Master of Chains. The DC is equal to 10 + class levels in Master of Chains + 1/2 Character levels(at most half of his intimidate skill). This ability may be used three timed per day.
Chain Armor: A Master of Chains may use 20 feet of chains to reinforce his current chain-based armor(must wear chainmail or chain shirt for this to work). He gains a +1 AC at level 3, this increases to +2 at 6 and +3 at 9 levels of Master of Chains.
Chain Bind:A Master of Chains has mastered the art of rendering opponents immobile with their chains.
Specific: The Master of Chains makes a ranged touch attack against a target monster which is granted a reflex save against a DC equal to 10 + class levels in Master of Chains + 1/2 Character levels if it fails it is paralyzed for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 of the levels in Master of Chains. The victim makes a strength check and an escape artist skill check every round to try to break free of the abilities effect.
Greater Punishing Lash: The Master of Chains has become even more adapt at fighting multiple opponents with his chains. He can lash at multiple opponents should he kill each of them.
Specific: If the character kills an opponent, he gets a free attack against an opponent who is within weapon range. This is no longer limited in uses per round. This feat does not qualify as Cleave feat for class prerequisites.
Use: Automatic
Tactical Expertise: A Master of Chains gains a +2 bonus Disarm checks. This bonus becomes +4 at level 8.
Spiked Chain Armor(Su): The Master of Chains now uses his spiked chain to defend against foes that attack him in melee, they take 1d4 piercing damage if they hit.
Constant Vigilance: Opponents entering the whirling mass of chains around the master are so immensely threatened they have to move with caution.
Specific: Enemies within 10 feet of the Master of Chains have to make a will save against a DC equal to 10 + class levels in Master of Chains + 1/2 Character levels(at most half of his intimidate skill) or have their reflex saves reduced by 4 and their movement slowed by 50%.
Use: Automatic
Cheap Shot: Moving his chain as fast and nimble as he is, the Master of Chains is able to better find openings in his opponents defenses.
Specifics: Beginning from level 7 the Master of Chains gets a bonus of +4 to his attacks of opportunity.
Use: Automatic
Ironclad: Through years of training a Master of Chains has gained deep insight into the art of tripping and ripping his opponents to the ground with his chains.
Specifics: A Master of Chains is treated as one size category larger when he attempts to knockdown a target(we'll have to see if this is possible.
Use: Automatic
Circling Death : The Master of Chains uses sheer strength to keep his chain circling, attacking any and all enemies that dare to enter the deadly maelstrom that are his chains.
Specifics: The Master of Chains uses an improved Whirlwind Attack that deals an additional 2d6 piercing damage on each attack made.
Use: Selected.
The Master of Chains loses all his abilities if not wielding chains
(!!!Work in progress!!!)
The Master of Chains is a canny opportunist whose intimidating presence is capable of inciting hardened soldiers into a panic. Using mystical martial techniques first pioneered by chain devils in the early days of the Blood War, a Master of Chains can gain an unnatural degree of control over his weapon, enhancing its damage potential and even allowing him to use it as a armor.
Requirements:
Race: Any
Alignment: Non-good.
Basic Attack Bonus: +4
Skills: Intimidate 4 ranks
Feats: Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Combat Expertise, Knockdown, Improved Knockdown, Disarm, Improved Disarm
Class Features:
- Hit Die: d10
- Base Attack Bonus: High
- High Saves: Fortitude
- Weapon Proficiencies: None
- Armor Proficiencies: None
- Skill Points: 2 + Int Modifier.
- Class Skills: Craft Alchemy, Craft Armor, Craft Weapon, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Tumble, Taunt
Class Abilities:
Level 1: Punishing Lash
Level 2: Scare
Level 3: Chain Armor +1
Level 4: Chain Bind
Level 5: Greater Punishing Lash, Tactical Expertise +2
Level 6: Chain Armor +2, Spiked Chain Armor(Su)
Level 7: Constant Vigilance, Cheap Shot
Level 8: Tactical Expertise +4
Level 9: Chain Armor +3, Ironclad
Level 10: Circling Death
Punishing Lash: The Master of Chains is so adapt at using his chains to fight multiple opponents, he lashes at the next once an opponent has fallen.
Specifics: If the character kills an opponent, he gets a free attack against an opponent who is within weapon range. This is limited to one use per round. This feat does not qualify as Cleave feat for class prerequisites.
Use: Automatic.
Scare: A Master of Chains may induce fear into his enemies as per the Fear spell with a duration of 5 rounds + half of class levels in Master of Chains. The DC is equal to 10 + class levels in Master of Chains + 1/2 Character levels(at most half of his intimidate skill). This ability may be used three timed per day.
Chain Armor: A Master of Chains may use 20 feet of chains to reinforce his current chain-based armor(must wear chainmail or chain shirt for this to work). He gains a +1 AC at level 3, this increases to +2 at 6 and +3 at 9 levels of Master of Chains.
Chain Bind:A Master of Chains has mastered the art of rendering opponents immobile with their chains.
Specific: The Master of Chains makes a ranged touch attack against a target monster which is granted a reflex save against a DC equal to 10 + class levels in Master of Chains + 1/2 Character levels if it fails it is paralyzed for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 of the levels in Master of Chains. The victim makes a strength check and an escape artist skill check every round to try to break free of the abilities effect.
Greater Punishing Lash: The Master of Chains has become even more adapt at fighting multiple opponents with his chains. He can lash at multiple opponents should he kill each of them.
Specific: If the character kills an opponent, he gets a free attack against an opponent who is within weapon range. This is no longer limited in uses per round. This feat does not qualify as Cleave feat for class prerequisites.
Use: Automatic
Tactical Expertise: A Master of Chains gains a +2 bonus Disarm checks. This bonus becomes +4 at level 8.
Spiked Chain Armor(Su): The Master of Chains now uses his spiked chain to defend against foes that attack him in melee, they take 1d4 piercing damage if they hit.
Constant Vigilance: Opponents entering the whirling mass of chains around the master are so immensely threatened they have to move with caution.
Specific: Enemies within 10 feet of the Master of Chains have to make a will save against a DC equal to 10 + class levels in Master of Chains + 1/2 Character levels(at most half of his intimidate skill) or have their reflex saves reduced by 4 and their movement slowed by 50%.
Use: Automatic
Cheap Shot: Moving his chain as fast and nimble as he is, the Master of Chains is able to better find openings in his opponents defenses.
Specifics: Beginning from level 7 the Master of Chains gets a bonus of +4 to his attacks of opportunity.
Use: Automatic
Ironclad: Through years of training a Master of Chains has gained deep insight into the art of tripping and ripping his opponents to the ground with his chains.
Specifics: A Master of Chains is treated as one size category larger when he attempts to knockdown a target(we'll have to see if this is possible.
Use: Automatic
Circling Death : The Master of Chains uses sheer strength to keep his chain circling, attacking any and all enemies that dare to enter the deadly maelstrom that are his chains.
Specifics: The Master of Chains uses an improved Whirlwind Attack that deals an additional 2d6 piercing damage on each attack made.
Use: Selected.
The Master of Chains loses all his abilities if not wielding chains
(!!!Work in progress!!!)
Last edited by K'yon Oblodra on Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:10 am, edited 13 times in total.
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Sun Wukong
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Re: PrC Master of Chains (!!!Work in Progress!!!)
The only chain weapons we have is flail and Flail.
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- K'yon Oblodra
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Re: PrC Master of Chains (!!!Work in Progress!!!)
Painfully aware of that. Would like to offer my help introducing the chain as weapon or maybe is already somewhere... Would try my best to help get it introduce if nothing else works one could repurpose the whole thing to staff although obviously much less cool.Comments Only wrote:The only chain weapons we have is flail and Flail.
I'd honestly like to know what of these skills is doable and maybe I can work with someone to get the chains rolling
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dzidek1983
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Re: PrC Master of Chains (!!!Work in Progress!!!)
Plus 1 armor for each level? More like plus 1 and that's it.
Hey, I just lost it, And this is crazy, But here's my login, So PM me, maybe?
- aaron22
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Re: PrC Master of Chains (!!!Work in Progress!!!)
Looks like a scary bad guy in an 80's swartzenager movie. That is not a negative BTW.
Khar B'ukagaroh
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Re: PrC Master of Chains (!!!Work in Progress!!!)
Pinhead from Hellraiser.
- aaron22
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Re: PrC Master of Chains (!!!Work in Progress!!!)
One of his cenobites for sure.Aspect of Sorrow wrote:Pinhead from Hellraiser.
Role me up a cenobites. Do it NOW
Khar B'ukagaroh
"You never know how strong you are until being strong is your only choice."
Bob Marley
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Re: PrC Master of Chains (!!!Work in Progress!!!)
dzidek1983 wrote:Plus 1 armor for each level? More like plus 1 and that's it.
Guys feel free to make suggestions, especially our building pros I'd like to give me some input in terms of balance... The goal with this class is to get another pure fighting PrC as I feel there are too few of those as of now.
The spiked chain be would be an exotic weapon with 2d4 or 2d6 and all abilities of the class would be tied to using these chains not using them as weapons would disable any and all cards granted by this PrC.
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Sun Wukong
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Re: PrC Master of Chains (!!!Work in Progress!!!)
Master of Chain
The master of chains is a combatant specializing in the use of chains — specifically the flail — as a weapon.
Requirements:
Race: Any
Alignment: Non-good.
Skills: Escape Artist 6 ranks, Open Lock 4 ranks, Intimidate 4 ranks
Feats: Martial Weapon Proficiency, Combat Expertise, Knockdown, Improved Knockdown, Weapon Focus (Flail)
Class Features:
- Hit Die: d10
- Base Attack Bonus: High
- High Saves: Reflex
- Weapon Proficiencies: None
- Armor Proficiencies: None
- Skill Points: 4 + Int Modifier.
- Class Skills: Craft Alchemy, Craft Armor, Craft Weapon, Escape Artist, Hide, Intimidate, Open Lock, Tumble
Class Abilities:
Level 1: Scare
Level 2:
Level 3: Superior Weapon Focus
Level 4: Chain Bind
Level 5: Chain Armor, Double Chain
Level 6: Extra Lash
Level 7: Improved Double Chain
Level 8:
Level 9: Swinging Attack
Level 10: Greater Double Chain
Scare: By rattling his chains as a standard action, the master can induce fear in a creature as the spell of the same name. The DC of this ability is determined by: 10 + Levels of Master of Chains + Charisma modifier, and the duration on a failed save is one round per Master of Chain level. The master can use this extraordinary ability only once per day.
Superior Weapon Focus : Stacking on top of any existing Weapon Focus bonus, this ability grants a master of chains an additional +1 to attack rolls with a spiked chain.
Chain Bind: At 4th level, the master of chains can use his weapon and a quick application of a lock (the whole process requiring a full-round action) to bind a single Small, Medium, or Large creature. This should be treated as an attack with a net, except that the Escape Artist check to escape has a DC of 25, and the burst DC is 30. The entangled creature suffers 1 point of damage per round while entangled.
Chain Armor: At 5th level, a master of chains can wrap himself in chains to provide him with a +1 natural armor bonus to AC.
Double Chain: At 5th level, the master of chains can choose to wield two flails simultaneously and gains the Two-Weapon Fighting feat. (Note: If you want to wield two flails, you need to acquire a special off-hand flail marked as a 'flail' while regular flails are listed as a 'Flail'.)
Extra Lash: At 6th level, a master of chains inflicts an additional +1d6 points of damage with a flail.
Improved Double Chain: At 7th level, the master of chains can choose to wield two flails simultaneously and gains the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting feat. (Note: If you want to wield two flails, you need to acquire a special off-hand flail marked as a 'flail' while regular flails are listed as a 'Flail'.)
Swinging Attack: At 9th level, as a full-round action, the master of chains can smash the end of his flail around a nearby wall and swing at any target within 10 feet. The foe so attacked is treated as flat-footed and the master gains a +2 attack bonus and inflicts +3d6 damage with this single attack (only one attack is allowed).
Greater Double Chain: At 10th level, the master of chains can choose to wield two flails simultaneously and gains the Greater Two-Weapon Fighting feat. (Note: If you want to wield two flails, you need to acquire a special off-hand flail marked as a 'flail' while regular flails are listed as a 'Flail'.)
/// Inspired from Sword and Fist: A Guidebook to Monks and Fighters variant, p. 27
/// Not hijacking a thread, just making a suggestion and offering a template for easy adjustment that might also be a bit easier to read.
The master of chains is a combatant specializing in the use of chains — specifically the flail — as a weapon.
Requirements:
Race: Any
Alignment: Non-good.
Skills: Escape Artist 6 ranks, Open Lock 4 ranks, Intimidate 4 ranks
Feats: Martial Weapon Proficiency, Combat Expertise, Knockdown, Improved Knockdown, Weapon Focus (Flail)
Class Features:
- Hit Die: d10
- Base Attack Bonus: High
- High Saves: Reflex
- Weapon Proficiencies: None
- Armor Proficiencies: None
- Skill Points: 4 + Int Modifier.
- Class Skills: Craft Alchemy, Craft Armor, Craft Weapon, Escape Artist, Hide, Intimidate, Open Lock, Tumble
Class Abilities:
Level 1: Scare
Level 2:
Level 3: Superior Weapon Focus
Level 4: Chain Bind
Level 5: Chain Armor, Double Chain
Level 6: Extra Lash
Level 7: Improved Double Chain
Level 8:
Level 9: Swinging Attack
Level 10: Greater Double Chain
Scare: By rattling his chains as a standard action, the master can induce fear in a creature as the spell of the same name. The DC of this ability is determined by: 10 + Levels of Master of Chains + Charisma modifier, and the duration on a failed save is one round per Master of Chain level. The master can use this extraordinary ability only once per day.
Superior Weapon Focus : Stacking on top of any existing Weapon Focus bonus, this ability grants a master of chains an additional +1 to attack rolls with a spiked chain.
Chain Bind: At 4th level, the master of chains can use his weapon and a quick application of a lock (the whole process requiring a full-round action) to bind a single Small, Medium, or Large creature. This should be treated as an attack with a net, except that the Escape Artist check to escape has a DC of 25, and the burst DC is 30. The entangled creature suffers 1 point of damage per round while entangled.
Chain Armor: At 5th level, a master of chains can wrap himself in chains to provide him with a +1 natural armor bonus to AC.
Double Chain: At 5th level, the master of chains can choose to wield two flails simultaneously and gains the Two-Weapon Fighting feat. (Note: If you want to wield two flails, you need to acquire a special off-hand flail marked as a 'flail' while regular flails are listed as a 'Flail'.)
Extra Lash: At 6th level, a master of chains inflicts an additional +1d6 points of damage with a flail.
Improved Double Chain: At 7th level, the master of chains can choose to wield two flails simultaneously and gains the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting feat. (Note: If you want to wield two flails, you need to acquire a special off-hand flail marked as a 'flail' while regular flails are listed as a 'Flail'.)
Swinging Attack: At 9th level, as a full-round action, the master of chains can smash the end of his flail around a nearby wall and swing at any target within 10 feet. The foe so attacked is treated as flat-footed and the master gains a +2 attack bonus and inflicts +3d6 damage with this single attack (only one attack is allowed).
Greater Double Chain: At 10th level, the master of chains can choose to wield two flails simultaneously and gains the Greater Two-Weapon Fighting feat. (Note: If you want to wield two flails, you need to acquire a special off-hand flail marked as a 'flail' while regular flails are listed as a 'Flail'.)
/// Inspired from Sword and Fist: A Guidebook to Monks and Fighters variant, p. 27
/// Not hijacking a thread, just making a suggestion and offering a template for easy adjustment that might also be a bit easier to read.
" I am no longer here, the elves of the Sword Coast are just far too horrible... "
- Elminster, probably.
- K'yon Oblodra
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Re: PrC Master of Chains (!!!Work in Progress!!!)
Comments Only wrote:Master of Chain
The master of chains is a combatant specializing in the use of chains — specifically the flail — as a weapon.
Requirements:
Race: Any
Alignment: Non-good.
Skills: Escape Artist 6 ranks, Open Lock 4 ranks, Intimidate 4 ranks
Feats: Martial Weapon Proficiency, Combat Expertise, Knockdown, Improved Knockdown, Weapon Focus (Flail)
Class Features:
- Hit Die: d10
- Base Attack Bonus: High
- High Saves: Reflex
- Weapon Proficiencies: None
- Armor Proficiencies: None
- Skill Points: 4 + Int Modifier.
- Class Skills: Craft Alchemy, Craft Armor, Craft Weapon, Escape Artist, Hide, Intimidate, Open Lock, Tumble
Class Abilities:
Level 1: Scare
Level 2:
Level 3: Superior Weapon Focus
Level 4: Chain Bind
Level 5: Chain Armor, Double Chain
Level 6: Extra Lash
Level 7: Improved Double Chain
Level 8:
Level 9: Swinging Attack
Level 10: Greater Double Chain
I'll try to integrate this template into my description to make everything a bit more clear. Thanks for reminding me of the template
Comments Only wrote:Scare: By rattling his chains as a standard action, the master can induce fear in a creature as the spell of the same name. The DC of this ability is determined by: 10 + Levels of Master of Chains + Charisma modifier, and the duration on a failed save is one round per Master of Chain level. The master can use this extraordinary ability only once per day.
I'd want this ability to be usable a bit more frequently but I'll make my version a bit weaker to make it less overpowered compared to as is.
Comments Only wrote:Superior Weapon Focus : Stacking on top of any existing Weapon Focus bonus, this ability grants a master of chains an additional +1 to attack rolls with a spiked chain.
While this is a good feat it is a very passive one which gives little to no uniqueness which I am looking for.
Comments Only wrote:Chain Bind: At 4th level, the master of chains can use his weapon and a quick application of a lock (the whole process requiring a full-round action) to bind a single Small, Medium, or Large creature. This should be treated as an attack with a net, except that the Escape Artist check to escape has a DC of 25, and the burst DC is 30. The entangled creature suffers 1 point of damage per round while entangled.
I like the idea behind this although I am not sure what this would do besides the 1 point of damage per round .
Comments Only wrote:Chain Armor: At 5th level, a master of chains can wrap himself in chains to provide him with a +1 natural armor bonus to AC.
I'd like this armor bonus to be one that would possibly add to the already readily available armor bonuses through equipment so it doesn't just get rendered useless by an item. Maybe similar to the bonus mage armor grants.
Comments Only wrote:Double Chain: At 5th level, the master of chains can choose to wield two flails simultaneously and gains the Two-Weapon Fighting feat. (Note: If you want to wield two flails, you need to acquire a special off-hand flail marked as a 'flail' while regular flails are listed as a 'Flail'.)
Improved Double Chain: At 7th level, the master of chains can choose to wield two flails simultaneously and gains the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting feat. (Note: If you want to wield two flails, you need to acquire a special off-hand flail marked as a 'flail' while regular flails are listed as a 'Flail'.)
Greater Double Chain: At 10th level, the master of chains can choose to wield two flails simultaneously and gains the Greater Two-Weapon Fighting feat. (Note: If you want to wield two flails, you need to acquire a special off-hand flail marked as a 'flail' while regular flails are listed as a 'Flail'.)
This are pretty good feats if one would get them for free on a strength based character but in way that would just turn this class into another dual wielder and again lacks a bit of the active component I am looking for.
Comments Only wrote:Extra Lash: At 6th level, a master of chains inflicts an additional +1d6 points of damage with a flail.
Certainly a strong feat especially combined with a dual-wielding charakter maybe even a bit too strong. I could imagine this for the class if it wouldn't make it too strong in the end.
Comments Only wrote:Swinging Attack: At 9th level, as a full-round action, the master of chains can smash the end of his flail around a nearby wall and swing at any target within 10 feet. The foe so attacked is treated as flat-footed and the master gains a +2 attack bonus and inflicts +3d6 damage with this single attack (only one attack is allowed).
This is a really interesting idea would probably make for a nice synergy with rogues. Not sure how easy this would be to implement and how good to use it would be considering lag and the like but it's certainly creative and cool.
Thank you for your ideas really appreciate it.Comments Only wrote:/// Inspired from Sword and Fist: A Guidebook to Monks and Fighters variant, p. 27
/// Not hijacking a thread, just making a suggestion and offering a template for easy adjustment that might also be a bit easier to read.
I hope my critique does not come across too harsh as I really enjoyed seeing your take on this and to see a couple of the ideas you came up with.
As you've probably already read in the comments above my biggest problem with it is the lack of actives and that I just had a different idea about what I want this class to focus on, which is knockdown and disarm and probably, to add a third, attacks of opportunity.
I'll try to update the class with the template and also have gotten a bit of input on what we'll be able to script and what not so I'll adjust the abilities as well.
Always hoping to get more input on the balancing part of things and if someone has an idea how we can get the chains implemented into the game I'd love to hear it
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Re: PrC Master of Chains (!!!Work in Progress!!!)
Just off the top of my yeah, here, but I wanted to contribute because this class sounds so cool!
Weapon: Spiked chain
Type: Exotic
Size: Large
Base Damage: 2d3
Special: Reach (Threatens one additional square)
(The idea here is to have a weapon with a distinct tactical advantage, but with a lower overall damage output)
Class Abilities:
Scare Diration: Equal to Charisma bonus?
Chain Bind DC: BaB + MoC lvl ? (progresses with character; otherwise I see a big advantage at MoC 4 that goes down as the character levels up until it's too easy to avoid to be considered useful)
Chain Armor: Copy Monk progression? Or maybe add Con bonus to A.C. as per Paladins + Cha?
Epic Double chain: Allows extra AoO up to full Str Bonus?
Weapon: Spiked chain
Type: Exotic
Size: Large
Base Damage: 2d3
Special: Reach (Threatens one additional square)
(The idea here is to have a weapon with a distinct tactical advantage, but with a lower overall damage output)
Class Abilities:
Scare Diration: Equal to Charisma bonus?
Chain Bind DC: BaB + MoC lvl ? (progresses with character; otherwise I see a big advantage at MoC 4 that goes down as the character levels up until it's too easy to avoid to be considered useful)
Chain Armor: Copy Monk progression? Or maybe add Con bonus to A.C. as per Paladins + Cha?
Epic Double chain: Allows extra AoO up to full Str Bonus?
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Sev'ltas Zau'afin, The Black Crow (Bio) || Journal: "Finding The Way through the Darkness"
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Sun Wukong
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Re: PrC Master of Chains (!!!Work in Progress!!!)
It would hardly be much different to a Shadow Dancer's Shadow Evade. In fact, it would be weaker since Shadow Eveade's DC is determined by the following formula: 10 + Shadowdancer level + dexterity modifier.I'd want this ability to be usable a bit more frequently but I'll make my version a bit weaker to make it less overpowered compared to as is.
Yeah, it is straight out of the PnP PRC. At a later level Master of Chain would get a similar buff for damage. I left that one out, replaced it with something else, so same thing could be done with this one.While this is a good feat it is a very passive one which gives little to no uniqueness which I am looking for.
I had hidden a link into the text:I like the idea behind this although I am not sure what this would do besides the 1 point of damage per round .
A net is used to entangle enemies. When you throw a net, you make a ranged touch attack against your target. A net’s maximum range is 10 feet. If you hit, the target is entangled. An entangled creature takes a -2 penalty on attack rolls and a -4 penalty on Dexterity, can move at only half speed, and cannot charge or run. If you control the trailing rope by succeeding on an opposed Strength check while holding it, the entangled creature can move only within the limits that the rope allows. If the entangled creature attempts to cast a spell, it must make a DC 15 Concentration check or be unable to cast the spell.
An entangled creature can escape with a DC 20 Escape Artist check (a full-round action). The net has 5 hit points and can be burst with a DC 25 Strength check (also a full-round action).
A net is useful only against creatures within one size category of you.
A net must be folded to be thrown effectively. The first time you throw your net in a fight, you make a normal ranged touch attack roll. After the net is unfolded, you take a -4 penalty on attack rolls with it. It takes 2 rounds for a proficient user to fold a net and twice that long for a nonproficient one to do so.
I thought of it like it was a stacking +1 AC, just like the one Palemasters, Dwarven Defenders, or Barbarians get. But it could also be changed to provide incremental progression so it frees up an item slot like a Frost Mage's Natural AC does.I'd like this armor bonus to be one that would possibly add to the already readily available armor bonuses through equipment so it doesn't just get rendered useless by an item. Maybe similar to the bonus mage armor grants.
I think the off-hand flails are light weapons, so it is not something just for strength based builds.This are pretty good feats if one would get them for free on a strength based character but in way that would just turn this class into another dual wielder and again lacks a bit of the active component I am looking for.
Duelists get 1d6 with 5 levels, 2d6 with 10. It can be bonus damage that does not multiply on critical hits. Thus, on average, it would be just 3,5~ points of damage.Certainly a strong feat especially combined with a dual-wielding charakter maybe even a bit too strong. I could imagine this for the class if it wouldn't make it too strong in the end.
There is a gnomish PRC, Breach Gnome, and it has an ability called Seal the Breach - I suppose that could be used as a base. As for attack animation, I suppose the unarmed jump or something could play out.This is a really interesting idea would probably make for a nice synergy with rogues. Not sure how easy this would be to implement and how good to use it would be considering lag and the like but it's certainly creative and cool.
Harsh? Not at all. We are just talking, and usually it is me who gets blamed for crushing and tearing apart ideas as if I were some hideous troll living under a bridge!I hope my critique does not come across too harsh as I really enjoyed seeing your take on this and to see a couple of the ideas you came up with.
Well, static bonuses to knockdown and disarm would be one way to do it. But considering how you could go for something like strength based Barbarian 20/Master of Chain 10, buffing knockdown might be bit too much. It could be fun to be consider one size category bigger than you do with Improved Knockdown... but with potentially 46 strength and yet another +4 on the knockdown roll... What couldn't you knockdown? (Well, something with just blanket immunity against knockdown.)As you've probably already read in the comments above my biggest problem with it is the lack of actives and that I just had a different idea about what I want this class to focus on, which is knockdown and disarm and probably, to add a third, attacks of opportunity.
As for Disarm, well, the stock disarm doesn't really work. Most mobs just have creature weapons that cannot be disarmed. So, if you take the stock in game disarm rolls and actually impose penalties to ab and damage - you might have disarm ability that actually hampers the enemy. Think of it like a melee based curse song.
Finally, attacks of opportunity... I have no idea if those can be singled out and adjusted in any way.
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Re: PrC Master of Chains (!!!Work in Progress!!!)
DeepFriedMoose wrote:Just off the top of my yeah, here, but I wanted to contribute because this class sounds so cool!
Glad you like it
DeepFriedMoose wrote:Weapon: Spiked chain
Type: Exotic
Size: Large
Base Damage: 2d3
Special: Reach (Threatens one additional square)
(The idea here is to have a weapon with a distinct tactical advantage, but with a lower overall damage output)
Not sure the reach part is actually workable but maybe one could have the range of the weapon be somewhat larger so the class would benefit more from the attack of opportunity part of its kit.
DeepFriedMoose wrote:Class Abilities:
Scare Diration: Equal to Charisma bonus?
I'd prefer to keep charisma out of the kit
DeepFriedMoose wrote:Chain Bind DC: BaB + MoC lvl ? (progresses with character; otherwise I see a big advantage at MoC 4 that goes down as the character levels up until it's too easy to avoid to be considered useful)
Like that idea
DeepFriedMoose wrote:Chain Armor: Copy Monk progression? Or maybe add Con bonus to A.C. as per Paladins + Cha?
Adjusted this similar to monk progression.
Something like that is now in the abilities of the classDeepFriedMoose wrote:Epic Double chain: Allows extra AoO up to full Str Bonus?
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Re: PrC Master of Chains (!!!Work in Progress!!!)
Haven't had time to check and integrate this stuff yet will do so later... Bear(or however that is written) with meComments Only wrote:It would hardly be much different to a Shadow Dancer's Shadow Evade. In fact, it would be weaker since Shadow Eveade's DC is determined by the following formula: 10 + Shadowdancer level + dexterity modifier.I'd want this ability to be usable a bit more frequently but I'll make my version a bit weaker to make it less overpowered compared to as is.
Yeah, it is straight out of the PnP PRC. At a later level Master of Chain would get a similar buff for damage. I left that one out, replaced it with something else, so same thing could be done with this one.While this is a good feat it is a very passive one which gives little to no uniqueness which I am looking for.
I had hidden a link into the text:I like the idea behind this although I am not sure what this would do besides the 1 point of damage per round .A net is used to entangle enemies. When you throw a net, you make a ranged touch attack against your target. A net’s maximum range is 10 feet. If you hit, the target is entangled. An entangled creature takes a -2 penalty on attack rolls and a -4 penalty on Dexterity, can move at only half speed, and cannot charge or run. If you control the trailing rope by succeeding on an opposed Strength check while holding it, the entangled creature can move only within the limits that the rope allows. If the entangled creature attempts to cast a spell, it must make a DC 15 Concentration check or be unable to cast the spell.
An entangled creature can escape with a DC 20 Escape Artist check (a full-round action). The net has 5 hit points and can be burst with a DC 25 Strength check (also a full-round action).
A net is useful only against creatures within one size category of you.
A net must be folded to be thrown effectively. The first time you throw your net in a fight, you make a normal ranged touch attack roll. After the net is unfolded, you take a -4 penalty on attack rolls with it. It takes 2 rounds for a proficient user to fold a net and twice that long for a nonproficient one to do so.I thought of it like it was a stacking +1 AC, just like the one Palemasters, Dwarven Defenders, or Barbarians get. But it could also be changed to provide incremental progression so it frees up an item slot like a Frost Mage's Natural AC does.I'd like this armor bonus to be one that would possibly add to the already readily available armor bonuses through equipment so it doesn't just get rendered useless by an item. Maybe similar to the bonus mage armor grants.
I think the off-hand flails are light weapons, so it is not something just for strength based builds.This are pretty good feats if one would get them for free on a strength based character but in way that would just turn this class into another dual wielder and again lacks a bit of the active component I am looking for.
Duelists get 1d6 with 5 levels, 2d6 with 10. It can be bonus damage that does not multiply on critical hits. Thus, on average, it would be just 3,5~ points of damage.Certainly a strong feat especially combined with a dual-wielding charakter maybe even a bit too strong. I could imagine this for the class if it wouldn't make it too strong in the end.
There is a gnomish PRC, Breach Gnome, and it has an ability called Seal the Breach - I suppose that could be used as a base. As for attack animation, I suppose the unarmed jump or something could play out.This is a really interesting idea would probably make for a nice synergy with rogues. Not sure how easy this would be to implement and how good to use it would be considering lag and the like but it's certainly creative and cool.
Harsh? Not at all. We are just talking, and usually it is me who gets blamed for crushing and tearing apart ideas as if I were some hideous troll living under a bridge!I hope my critique does not come across too harsh as I really enjoyed seeing your take on this and to see a couple of the ideas you came up with.![]()
Well, static bonuses to knockdown and disarm would be one way to do it. But considering how you could go for something like strength based Barbarian 20/Master of Chain 10, buffing knockdown might be bit too much. It could be fun to be consider one size category bigger than you do with Improved Knockdown... but with potentially 46 strength and yet another +4 on the knockdown roll... What couldn't you knockdown? (Well, something with just blanket immunity against knockdown.)As you've probably already read in the comments above my biggest problem with it is the lack of actives and that I just had a different idea about what I want this class to focus on, which is knockdown and disarm and probably, to add a third, attacks of opportunity.
As for Disarm, well, the stock disarm doesn't really work. Most mobs just have creature weapons that cannot be disarmed. So, if you take the stock in game disarm rolls and actually impose penalties to ab and damage - you might have disarm ability that actually hampers the enemy. Think of it like a melee based curse song.
Finally, attacks of opportunity... I have no idea if those can be singled out and adjusted in any way.
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chad878262
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Re: PrC Master of Chains (!!!Work in Progress!!!)
My take on this...
Outside the fact that there is extra work to create a new weapon type, enchanted, greater, and epic versions of said weapon type and the mechanics around the weapon type I think the class, while cool requires a lot of customized scripting/code that would only apply to this one class. In general I feel like things that make a class unique are good, but you can't overdo it since there is only going to be a limited percentage of the server playing it. In addition, the more customized a PRC is, the more likely you are to run in to similar issues as the OOBI, where certain aspects just don't work. Then you have to wait, possibly several years while the class is half finished and most feel it is unusable. So the effort to implement in the first place was mostly wasted.
Below are some specific comments on the abilities.
I don't see a description for:
All in all it does give a lot, but it also self-imposes very limited branching out to other PRC's. Not sure I understand the Non-Good alignment restriction and the DC's are too high, but most of the other feats/abilities are ok. I think the biggest issue is that there is already a backlog of PRC's to implement and this one is a bit more effort (possibly a lot more) than other PRC's.
Outside the fact that there is extra work to create a new weapon type, enchanted, greater, and epic versions of said weapon type and the mechanics around the weapon type I think the class, while cool requires a lot of customized scripting/code that would only apply to this one class. In general I feel like things that make a class unique are good, but you can't overdo it since there is only going to be a limited percentage of the server playing it. In addition, the more customized a PRC is, the more likely you are to run in to similar issues as the OOBI, where certain aspects just don't work. Then you have to wait, possibly several years while the class is half finished and most feel it is unusable. So the effort to implement in the first place was mostly wasted.
Below are some specific comments on the abilities.
Unless Whirlwind Attack is a requirement of the class I don't like the idea of giving a Whirlwind bonus. I do like how you make it easy here by simply changing Tempest Improved Whirlwind to piercing instead of slashing, but either you need to require Whirlwind Attack to qualify for the class (which is asking a lot with the already hefty requirements feat wise) or you need to give Whirlwind Attack for free, then give the improved version.Circling Death : The Master of Chains uses sheer strength to keep his chain circling, attacking any and all enemies that dare to enter the deadly maelstrom that are his chains.
Specifics: The Master of Chains uses an improved Whirlwind Attack that deals an additional 2d6 piercing damage on each attack made.
Use: Selected.
Punishing Lash: The Master of Chains is so adapt at using his chains to fight multiple opponents, he lashes at the next once an opponent has fallen.
Specifics: If the character kills an opponent, he gets a free attack against an opponent who is within weapon range. This is limited to one use per round.
Use: Automatic.
Your giving Cleave and Great Cleave for free, though with them being renamed they don't allow qualification for classes like Blackguard/Frenzied Berserker which is clever. However, so far I presume we are now at a total of 3 free feats for 5 levels in a PRC, which is in addition to other benefits... Seems too much.Greater Punishing Lash: The Master of Chains has become even more adapt at fighting multiple opponents with his chains. He can lash at multiple opponents should he kill each of them.
Specific: If the character kills an opponent, he gets a free attack against an opponent who is within weapon range. This is no longer limited in uses per round.
Use: Automatic
NOPE! Intimidate is one of the few skills you can get Epic Skill Focus in. Thayan Knight gets it for free at level 5... In addition, there are boots that give huge Initimidate bonus, so it is fully in the realm of possibility for a PC to exceed 90 in the Intimidate skill. 90/3=30+10 (Base) +10 (Master of Chains) = DC 50 Fear spell... I would want to ensure that it is very difficult to get a DC of anything more than 32-35 or so.Scare: A Master of Chains may induce fear into his enemies as per the Fear spell with a duration of 5 rounds + half of class levels in Master of Chains. The DC is equal to 10 + 1/3 of his ranks in intimidate + class levels in Master of Chains. This ability may be used three timed per day.
Interesting. A minor annoyance in PvP since the players hot bar will have the weapon removed so they have to find it in inventory and manually equip. In PvE though I think the issue with disarm is often times they are just immune, but maybe that is not the case? If they are immune it might be better to see if it's possible to do something like Frost Mage Piercing Cold where you can disarm anything that is using a weapon (non-natural, obviously you can not disarm claws/teeth).Tactical Expertise: A Master of Chains gains a +2 bonus Disarm checks. This bonus becomes +4 at level 8.
I am confused by this... Does the class have a requirement (or is it supposed to have a requirement) that it must wear either a Chain Shirt or Chain Mail armor? Does Chain Armor only work if the PC is wearing Chain Mail or Chain Shirt? If so than I think +3 AC is ok, though I might limit it to +2 AC instead since putting more points in DEX is taking away from Strength which is required for knockdown/disarm checks, but even +2 AC is making Mithral Chainmail as good or better than Mithral Plate. If it's just a flat +3 AC then no, limit to +1 if anything.Chain Armor: A Master of Chains may use 20 feet of chains to reinforce his current chain-based armor. He gains a +1 AC at level 3, this increases to +2 at 6 and +3 at 9 levels of Master of Chains.
permanent death armor...not overly strong, but when applied with everything else this class seems to be getting a lot.Spiked Chain Armor(Su): The Master of Chains now uses his spiked chain to defend against foes that attack him in melee, they take 1d4 piercing damage if they hit.
See above for how high this DC could reach. This needs reduced.Constant Vigilance: Opponents entering the whirling mass of chains around the master are so immensely threatened they have to move with caution.
Specific: Enemies within 20 feet of the Master of Chains have to make a will save against a DC equal to 10 + 1/3 of his ranks in intimidate + class levels in Master of Chains or have their movement slowed by 50%.
Use: Automatic
ok...Cheap Shot: Moving his chain as fast and nimble as he his the Master of Chains is able to better find openings in his opponents defenses.
Specifics: Beginning from level 7 the Master of Chains gets a bonus of +4 to his attacks of opportunity.
Use: Automatic
This might be a tad OP. What happens if the Master of Chains uses a Belt of Growth and becomes 1 size bigger? Is he now 2 sizes bigger? Might make for a knockdown behemoth. At a minimum would require significant testing.Ironclad: Through years of training a Master of Chains has gained deep insight into the art of tripping and ripping his opponents to the ground with his chains.
Specifics: A Master of Chains is treated as one size category larger when he attempts to knockdown a target(we'll have to see if this is possible.
Use: Automatic
I don't see a description for:
Overall it requires 6 feats to qualify, so for a non human the earliest / only option is to take feats at 1, 3, 6, 9, 12 and 15 so that you can meet the 3b20 requirements of the server. Instead of giving the death armor effect it might be better to give Deadly Defense for 1-4 bonus damage when using combat expertise so long as spiked chain is finessable, since it should be. I am a bit concerned that spiked chain should be finesse, but this seems built for a strength build. Though admittedly there is not much you can do about this since it is an engine limitation and does not coincide with 3.5 PnP trip rules. Basically it looks like it would only really fit with a Fighter/Roguish type which is fine, almost requires Fighter as a base class if you want any other PRC's. I could see this being a sort of Fighter/Whirling Dervish/Master of Chains mix being decent.Level 4: Chain Bind
All in all it does give a lot, but it also self-imposes very limited branching out to other PRC's. Not sure I understand the Non-Good alignment restriction and the DC's are too high, but most of the other feats/abilities are ok. I think the biggest issue is that there is already a backlog of PRC's to implement and this one is a bit more effort (possibly a lot more) than other PRC's.
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