Building the Swashbuckler

[Jaffool]

I've already got 6 levels in Swashbuckler and I'm enjoying it so far, even though it's taking a while to really hit its stride.

STR: 13
DEX:17 (18 now)
CON: 8 (Set it low for rp mostly)
INT: 16
WIS: 10
CHA: 10

I've taken Dodge, Combat Expertise, Improved Parry, and One Weapon (listed as One Handed on the forums). I was planning on taking feint, but beginning to think it wouldn't be worth it and that I should not have taken Combat Expertise, since I mostly parry when things look rough anyway. I understand parrying to be a broken system, and so while I don't use it mostly in PvE very much, I like it for the flavor.

So anyway, all the silly rp reasons aside, I was considering going into either a full physical build, with Fighter and Duelist (only 4-5 levels as it's rewards are underwhelming, but the parry at level 9 seems tempting), or adding some Archivist. Archivist appeals to the character as he's been interested in Candlekeep and Oghma, but I don't know if a Gish build would even be managable at this point. Could I take Archivist without bombing my character? If so, how?

Any recommendations are welcome. Sorry for this being such a jumbled mess.


EDIT: I forgot to mention that Weapon Master would probably be high on my priorities if I went for straight melee. It's tempting.

[SBlack]

There are some changes to swashbuckler that can be found in the custom changes thread in the server rules and content tab. I'd say it's more about the RP you want to go with in the build. The content is designed for average character builds and RP characters to succeed in a party setting. Break points for mechanics are swashbuckler 12, 16, and 19 respectively for important powerful feats.

[Sun Wukong]

Duelist has been improved. For example, Elaborate Parry (Duelist 7) also grants +1 bonus to AC for every six ranks in the parry skill (maximum +5 Deflection at 30 base Parry skill points). This is a deflection bonus to AC, it doesn't stack with any other source of deflection AC. But it will free up that ring/cloak/helmet slot, and allow you to get more saves with a ring, regeneration with a cloak, and more intelligence (AC and Damage) with a helmet. Not to mention that 10 levels of Duelist will also give you total of extra 2d6 damage per hit that is not multiplied on a crit, and works against critical hit immunities.

I wouldn't shrug off Duelist so easily.

Now, 12 levels of Swashbuckler actually gives you Epic Precision. So, perhaps you could consider a Swashbuckler 12/Assassin 8/Duelist 10. It would mean you also get that 4d6 of sneak attack against everything.

Also, I am not sure if an Archivist class has been added on the server yet. So the levels of assassin give you some very easily dispelled buffs.

[dzidek1983]

I would make a swash20/duelist10 if you liek to have the typical lets duel character thats great in 1vs1 fights

He can get good Dmg, an ok AB and great AC but mostly vs 1 opponent

[aaron22]

i feel like swashy's sweet spot is 16 where at that point you get evasion. duelist is good at every level due to canny def, but 7 is tits. so that leaves 7 levels to play with and could go WM 7 for some damage or if you are twf tempest5 is good for def and ab. dervish is really best at full progression so that would come with some sacrifice. AK7 could be considered for a small DR and some extra goodies. i cannot see much else that i would consider.

[Valefort]

It can be fighter levels for a nifty +2 damage, divine champion for the saves, guild thief (uncanny dodge), rogue, bard.. plenty of good options imo.

[aaron22]

if i were to dip 3 rogue i would stop swash at 12 go duelist 7 and sin 8. that has some int and DA synergy to it. that would have SA/DA HIPS int for damage and ac. pretty nice.

[chad878262]

if i were to dip 3 rogue i would stop swash at 12 go duelist 7 and sin 8. that has some int and DA synergy to it. that would have SA/DA HIPS int for damage and ac. pretty nice.

Don't most duelist abilities only work when wielding one weapon? If so even with 6 APR only 2 will be sneak/death attacks, though haste will give you a 3rd DA.

[aaron22]

if i were to dip 3 rogue i would stop swash at 12 go duelist 7 and sin 8. that has some int and DA synergy to it. that would have SA/DA HIPS int for damage and ac. pretty nice.

Don't most duelist abilities only work when wielding one weapon? If so even with 6 APR only 2 will be sneak/death attacks, though haste will give you a 3rd DA.

the duelist and one weapon thing is something i would like to know. i have been trying to get an answer to that for a couple days now.

the synergy would be, i think, the DA and the high int score making it stick alot more often then most sin builds.

[aaron22]

Don't most duelist abilities only work when wielding one weapon?

the duelist and one weapon thing is something i would like to know. i have been trying to get an answer to that for a couple days now.

can someone jegs this for us if there is not someone that can say for sure?

[Jaffool]

I really would have liked to take the assassin route as it seems pretty interesting and certainly makes Epic Precision a worthwhile goal. Without DA or SAs, Epic Precision is pretty useless. My problem is hide and move silently are not class skills for any of my current classes. I'd have to dip into Rogue and I'm not sure how that would affect the build as a whole.

What are opinions on going towards Duelist/WM? Weapon Master has a ton of feat requirements, which is unfortunate, but seems to pay off, but if I took the two classes to 10 and 7 respectively, then I miss out on evasion and wounding critical, which both seem pretty handy. Could I benefit more from straight fighter instead of weapon master, taking a ton more feats and opening up my options?

Divine Champion is out because of my 10 Charisma. Anointed Knight requires a good alignment, and I am using only one weapon, a rapier, so no dervish.


Side note: Do you think I should rebuild to get rid of combat expertise? I'm not sure Feint is even worth the effort if I'm not getting sneak attacks off it.

[chad878262]

My understanding of Duelist is that only Precise Strike is tied to wielding one weapon with nothing in the offhand. The duelist AC is tied to no armor, no shield. Same with Enhanced Mobility... The only requirement that appears to exist for Flourish is wielding a piercing weapon. The rest of the Duelist abilities (Haste, +2 Reflex, Elaborate Parry and Deflect Arrows) all list nothing related to weapons or armor and appear to be usable no matter what. So if you want to build an Assassin with Duelist levels you would stop at whatever level your INT bonus stops on. (i.e. if INT is 24 you stop at Duelist 7). This way you can get the INT to AC and still use the Haste effect and Flourish every 12 seconds you would just need to wield a piercing weapon and not wear armor, you could still be a dual wielder.

Precise Strike could still be used if you built as a feinter instead of HiPSer since it is less focused on getting PTWF.

Also, Epic Precision is not useless or we would not have given it to SwashBuckler... It allows half of your Insightful Strike Damage to crit immune enemies.

[Jaffool]

My understanding of Duelist is that only Precise Strike is tied to wielding one weapon with nothing in the offhand. The duelist AC is tied to no armor, no shield. Same with Enhanced Mobility... The only requirement that appears to exist for Flourish is wielding a piercing weapon. The rest of the Duelist abilities (Haste, +2 Reflex, Elaborate Parry and Deflect Arrows) all list nothing related to weapons or armor and appear to be usable no matter what. So if you want to build an Assassin with Duelist levels you would stop at whatever level your INT bonus stops on. (i.e. if INT is 24 you stop at Duelist 7). This way you can get the INT to AC and still use the Haste effect and Flourish every 12 seconds you would just need to wield a piercing weapon and not wear armor, you could still be a dual wielder.

Precise Strike could still be used if you built as a feinter instead of HiPSer since it is less focused on getting PTWF.

Also, Epic Precision is not useless or we would not have given it to SwashBuckler... It allows half of your Insightful Strike Damage to crit immune enemies.

Oh geez, I'm a fool. That insightful strike damage will certainly help.

[aaron22]

I really would have liked to take the assassin route as it seems pretty interesting and certainly makes Epic Precision a worthwhile goal. Without DA or SAs, Epic Precision is pretty useless. My problem is hide and move silently are not class skills for any of my current classes. I'd have to dip into Rogue and I'm not sure how that would affect the build as a whole

.

you would take rogue at level 1 and take able learner. that is your route to sin.

What are opinions on going towards Duelist/WM? Weapon Master has a ton of feat requirements, which is unfortunate, but seems to pay off, but if I took the two classes to 10 and 7 respectively, then I miss out on evasion and wounding critical, which both seem pretty handy. Could I benefit more from straight fighter instead of weapon master, taking a ton more feats and opening up my options?

take duel to 7 and WM to 5 that leaves you at 18 for swash and you get all the goodies

Divine Champion is out because of my 10 Charisma. Anointed Knight requires a good alignment, and I am using only one weapon, a rapier, so no dervish.

warrior of darkness is the evil version of AK

all in all you have a ton of options. i dont really like the fighter dip unless you have a bunch of feats you are needing for your concept. the damage and ab boost is real but it seems a sacrifice compared to what a WM can grant or the benefits of a sin.

[aaron22]

made this real quick to show you what i mean.

http://nwn2db.com/build/?265177