ptwf duelist WM builds

[aaron22]

ok so im gonna try one out of a couple ideas for a tie ptwf duelist build

first one seems weird but im not sure its not the best

http://nwn2db.com/build/?263326

i know i miss out on the epic precision and weakening crit and evasion. but im not sure that it still isnt better.
---------------------------------------------------
more typical style build for PTWF duelist. utilizing the duelist4 for the 4 AC i will get and at 30 i will be at 32 dex. the point at which robes are the best armor.

http://nwn2db.com/build/?265259

[chad878262]

The first one is fine, with that AB missing out on Expose Weakness is actually less important than missing out on Evasion. Mechanically speaking you might be able to squeeze out a bit more by replacing Tempest with Dread Pirate... Dread Pirate gets LoH at 5 so you might be able to make a SB 7/DP9/D7/WM7 would get basically everything yours gets, but would also gain extra feats since TWF, ITWF and Spring Attack will come for free. You would level SB to 7 and DP to 6 and would only need Weapon Focus, Dodge, CE and Whirlwind Attack for WM. Basically you gain 1 feat this way over the Tempest build (you have to take GTWF and Whirlwind Attack so net gain is 1 feat). You lose 2 AB and 2 AC from Tempest, but gain 2 AB and 2 damage from Rally the Crew (2 uses per day which last 9 minutes each). Not a gigantic issue either way, but an extra feat in a feat starved build might be worth more to some.

The second build I am not as fond of. You need Duelist 7 to make the class really worth it. I just don't see what you are getting out of it for 4 levels...better off going for Invisible Blade at that point, in my opinion. Yes, Elaborate Parry is only 1 AC over what you can get from an item, but I just do not see what Duelist 4 brings to the table for a dual wield build. You don't get any of the really good duelist abilities...

Edit to clarify: Duelist 6 gets Flourish which the description indicates will work when wielding two weapons and 7 is essentially +1 deflection AC over what you can get from an item, along with simply freeing up an item slot which is really strong. If you are just trying to get INT to AC I would think Invisible Blade is a better choice for 4 levels.

[aaron22]

well i didnt go IB because, unless it has been changed for our server and i am unaware, that class is for dagger or kukri. i want mine to dual rapiers. I thought about DP but the DP requires 8 lore geo and swashy, again last i checked and i appealed to have it changed, doesnt offer lore geo as a class skill. so i wouldnt be able to take it until L14 bad synergy of swash DP WM.

duelist at any level is good if you are not planing on wearing armor on your dex build. four levels getting 4 ac is good. 7 getting you 12 ac is real great. i like tempest for a rapier PTWF. grants ac and ab. and finishes with WW. to me that constant benefit stands taller than what DP gives even if the lore geo conflict wasnt there.

to me just a good synergy of reqs for the four classes i selected.

both these builds should be able to get an AC in the low to mid 50's have an AB in the mid 40's and have 13 or 15 roll crit on 12 attacks/round. that is kind of what i was aiming for. oh yea and skill points to fire in all directions.

[aaron22]

am gonna roll up a ranger platform of the concept and see how that looks tomorrow

[Egg Shen]

So I've toyed around with lots of swash builds utilizing these new (to me) classes/prestige classes. Unless you want to go dwarf, none of the 30BAB combinations get Uncanny Dodge, which always feels like a bit of a deal breaker to me. Is Maintaining your AC not really a concern? Does the feat work as intended?

In related news, I recently spied something at the Thayan Enclave that grants Uncanny Dodge, so I'm thinking about whipping up a ptwf build with 50+ AB. Low damage, of course, but with 12 apr it should only matter against things that have pretty high DR.

[K'yon Oblodra]

Do the high Dex builds just have a higher AB and DC or what is the advantage over a high strength build aside from the extra attacks?

[chad878262]

No, high strength builds are superior on this server. High DEX builds are superior when you have ridiculous enchantment making weapons do 4d8 bonus damage from 3 different elemental types. There is probably a happy medium somehow, but on this server due to most (all? ) epic mobs having a decent amount of dr any PTWF build without either sneak attack, fighter feats, or some other way to apply extra damage you will struggle against mobs. If you build a solid pc you will be ankle to stand there for a long time so you can whittle them down, but it will be pretty boring.

[aaron22]

it is hard to find mobs with an abundance of DR/- though. so if you use gear swaps with wands then you can bypass alot of the DR on your PTWF. but then your carrying alot of stuff that further exposes your lower strength. and you are spending a lot of gold on good swaps.

[chad878262]

well i didnt go IB because, unless it has been changed for our server and i am unaware, that class is for dagger or kukri. i want mine to dual rapiers. I thought about DP but the DP requires 8 lore geo and swashy, again last i checked and i appealed to have it changed, doesnt offer lore geo as a class skill. so i wouldnt be able to take it until L14 bad synergy of swash DP WM.

duelist at any level is good if you are not planing on wearing armor on your dex build. four levels getting 4 ac is good. 7 getting you 12 ac is real great. i like tempest for a rapier PTWF. grants ac and ab. and finishes with WW. to me that constant benefit stands taller than what DP gives even if the lore geo conflict wasnt there.

to me just a good synergy of reqs for the four classes i selected.

both these builds should be able to get an AC in the low to mid 50's have an AB in the mid 40's and have 13 or 15 roll crit on 12 attacks/round. that is kind of what i was aiming for. oh yea and skill points to fire in all directions.

While unfortunate (and maybe that needs another look since Dread Pirate seems to have strong synergy with Swashbuckler) couldn't you start with SB/Duelist and then add DP? Could go SB7/Duelist6/DP4/WM3 in the first 20 levels... Looking at the various classes and custom changes Lore: Geography is a pretty rare skill and only Bard and Ranger have access to it that would have synergy with Dread Pirate. I'm thinking that either the requirement needs to be reduced to maybe 4 or we should have more classes with access to the skill. After all, it is not an arcane or lost art and really ANY adventure should have at least some skill with maps and rudimentary understanding of the Geography where they adventure.

[aaron22]

i whipped it up real quick and it takes two weapon fighting too late and spring attack too late.
there is no synergy with the feat acquisition. you would either need to be doubling up on taken and given feats and/or taking basic feats in the epic levels.

i have sent multiple requests for this

viewtopic.php?f=446&t=56282&p=707867&hi ... hy#p707867

plus several to DM team for observation.

the swash has a natural progression to DP and this is a road block.

[chad878262]

Well, I have posted to QC forums now (and apologies for the lateness, I really have never thought about it before, must have missed your post back in January or failed to think of the implications at the time).

Doesn't make much sense to not have Geography as a class skill for most, if not all classes really. In a time before 'google maps' I imagine most folk would need to know a thing or two about the region in which they live, especially adventurer types that might travel 100's of miles in a given year, or less. IMO it's the same for Lore: Local and Lore: Dungeoneering (perhaps to a lesser extent), since these would seem to be skills that any adventurer would pick up in their career, while History, Architecture, etc. is a bit more education intensive and makes sense to be less well known.

[aaron22]

well i think the image we see in our head for swashy is the errol flynn model. buccaneer. that screams lore geo. unless the swashy image the powers at be is something other than that. let me know anyway.

maybe giving swashy lore geo would be the straw that makes the class OP and it was either that or epic precision, weakening/wounding crit and evasion.

[Egg Shen]

So what's the verdict on Uncanny Dodge, then (see my post above)? It isn't strictly necessary for a Dexter build?

[chad878262]

So what's the verdict on Uncanny Dodge, then (see my post above)? It isn't strictly necessary for a Dexter build?

It is certainly a good idea, but from a PvE standpoint you can live without it.

[aaron22]

So what's the verdict on Uncanny Dodge, then (see my post above)? It isn't strictly necessary for a Dexter build?

something to consider. i would not call it a must have by any means, but its nice. i will need to go check out the thayans i think though, because it would be a nice add on in a gear piece.