Barbarian build

[eladar]

Hello guys.

I have just returned to the universe of Neverwinter Nights, which i havent played in 12 years since NWN 1. Anyways, i want to play barbarian but i am very bad at building chars, and being new to NWN 2 doesnt make it any easier.

I have found these 2 barbarian builds (http://nwn2db.com/build/?255610 and http://nwn2db.com/build/?209464) and was hoping some of you could tell me which one is the best, and maybe even if you can improve it?

Many thanks in advance

[Sun Wukong]

Both will do fine, so the question is more about what you want to play as yourself. Actually, any Barbarian 20/'Something else here' 10 - will work very well.

Now, some barbarian things to clarify:
There are two rage variants: Standard and Whirldwind Frenzy. Standard rage is just +STR and CON. Whirlwind Frenzy is +STR and Dodge AC. As for which is better, it will depend on your build, but I suppose the consensus is that Whirlwind Frenzy is the better option simply due to the extra Dodge AC

With both rage types, you can spend a feat on Ice-troll berserker, which gives you Natural Armor bonus while you rage that doesn't stack with amulets/spells.

You gain bonus feats at levels 10, 20, 30.

Epic Rage strength requirement has been lowered to 21, so you can go for a build that has Epic Damage Reduction, and Fast Healing while also having Epic Rage.

Barbarians get +2 natural armor at level 20 that stacks with other sources of natural armor.

Also, if you have very high Strength, Northlander Hewing is just a good feat to have. I would argue that it is better than Power Attack and Improved Power Attack combined.



As for best Barbarian build, I would put my money on Barbarian 20/Divine Champion 10. Divine champion gives Divine Wrath that at level 10 is +5 AB and Divine Damage for 'Divine Champion levels'/2 + Charisma modifier, and capped at 10 once for every 5 minutes. Moreover, you get +5 to all saves due to sacred defense, and bonus feats that you can spend on things like Epic Damage Reduction, Epic Prowess, Armor Skin, and Epic Toughness.

[dzidek1983]

Yeah go for DC. Its a Great build.

[eladar]

Thanks for the reply, I think i understood most of it hehe..

I think i will just try and go with one of the two builds then, just to have a lvl by lvl guide to go after.

[AlfarinIcebreaker]

Both will do fine, so the question is more about what you want to play as yourself. Actually, any Barbarian 20/'Something else here' 10 - will work very well.

Now, some barbarian things to clarify:
There are two rage variants: Standard and Whirldwind Frenzy. Standard rage is just +STR and CON. Whirlwind Frenzy is +STR and Dodge AC. As for which is better, it will depend on your build, but I suppose the consensus is that Whirlwind Frenzy is the better option simply due to the extra Dodge AC

With both rage types, you can spend a feat on Ice-troll berserker, which gives you Natural Armor bonus while you rage that doesn't stack with amulets/spells.

You gain bonus feats at levels 10, 20, 30.

Epic Rage strength requirement has been lowered to 21, so you can go for a build that has Epic Damage Reduction, and Fast Healing while also having Epic Rage.

Barbarians get +2 natural armor at level 20 that stacks with other sources of natural armor.

Also, if you have very high Strength, Northlander Hewing is just a good feat to have. I would argue that it is better than Power Attack and Improved Power Attack combined.



As for best Barbarian build, I would put my money on Barbarian 20/Divine Champion 10. Divine champion gives Divine Wrath that at level 10 is +5 AB and Divine Damage for 'Divine Champion levels'/2 + Charisma modifier, and capped at 10 once for every 5 minutes. Moreover, you get +5 to all saves due to sacred defense, and bonus feats that you can spend on things like Epic Damage Reduction, Epic Prowess, Armor Skin, and Epic Toughness.

Can you elaborate on Northlander Hewing? Provide some numbers?

[chad878262]

Both will do fine, so the question is more about what you want to play as yourself. Actually, any Barbarian 20/'Something else here' 10 - will work very well.

Now, some barbarian things to clarify:
There are two rage variants: Standard and Whirldwind Frenzy. Standard rage is just +STR and CON. Whirlwind Frenzy is +STR and Dodge AC. As for which is better, it will depend on your build, but I suppose the consensus is that Whirlwind Frenzy is the better option simply due to the extra Dodge AC

With both rage types, you can spend a feat on Ice-troll berserker, which gives you Natural Armor bonus while you rage that doesn't stack with amulets/spells.

You gain bonus feats at levels 10, 20, 30.

Epic Rage strength requirement has been lowered to 21, so you can go for a build that has Epic Damage Reduction, and Fast Healing while also having Epic Rage.

Barbarians get +2 natural armor at level 20 that stacks with other sources of natural armor.

Also, if you have very high Strength, Northlander Hewing is just a good feat to have. I would argue that it is better than Power Attack and Improved Power Attack combined.



As for best Barbarian build, I would put my money on Barbarian 20/Divine Champion 10. Divine champion gives Divine Wrath that at level 10 is +5 AB and Divine Damage for 'Divine Champion levels'/2 + Charisma modifier, and capped at 10 once for every 5 minutes. Moreover, you get +5 to all saves due to sacred defense, and bonus feats that you can spend on things like Epic Damage Reduction, Epic Prowess, Armor Skin, and Epic Toughness.

Can you elaborate on Northlander Hewing? Provide some numbers?

viewtopic.php?f=49&t=54292

There have been changes/bugfixes since this thread, but I did some math back then. Pretty sure it's not fully accurate math either, but gives an idea.

[AlfarinIcebreaker]

-2 AB and -2 AC is a bit hard to swallow, even if the damage calculation might be slightly in favour of the NH.

[Sun Wukong]

Can you elaborate on Northlander Hewing? Provide some numbers?

Alright, let us imagine a Barbarian 20/Divine Champion 10 that goes for Epic Rage and the buch of defensive feats:

22 (Base Strength) + 10 (Epic Strength) + 2 (Enchantment Bonus from a belt) = 34, which gives us a strength modifier of 12.

This is the one handed damage with a +4 Dagger:
4 (1d4 maximised) + 4 (Enchantment Bonus) +12 (Strength modifier) +16 (Northlander Hewing) = 36

This is the one handed damage with a +4 Battleaxe:
8 (1d8 maximised) + 4 (Enchantment Bonus) +12 (Strength modifier) +16 (Northlander Hewing) = 40

This is the one handed damage with a +4 Greataxe:
12 (1d12 maximised) + 4 (Enchantment Bonus) +12 (Strength modifier) +16 (Northlander Hewing) = 44

This is the two handed damage with a +4 Battleaxe:
8 (1d8 maximised) + 4 (Enchantment Bonus) +18 (Strength modifier*1.5) +16 (Northlander Hewing) = 46

This is the two handed damage with a +4 Greataxe:
12 (1d12 maximised) + 4 (Enchantment Bonus) +18 (Strength modifier) +16 (Northlander Hewing) = 50


You can use Northlander Hewing together with Power Attack, Improved Power Attack, Combat Expertise or Improved Combat Expertise.

When the NH mode is active, you suffer -2 penalties to AB and Damage, and the number of attacks you do becomes halved. (Haste effect tends to give you an extra attack at -15 BAB.)

If you are using Northlander Hewing without any other considerable AB reduction, the loss of AB is not noticiable. Moreover, if you have Whirlwind Frenzy or just Ice-troll Berserker feat the AC reduction is not very noticiable at all. Not to mention that you could just wield a shield and tank it out without a massive drop in damage.

And when you party up, getting that +5 Enchantment Bonus from Greater Magic Weapon actually gives +2 damage. +1 from having one point higher EB, and +1 from NH since it adds up strength modifier with your weapon's EB to form up the NH bonus damage on top maximising the weapon damage dice. Hence, monkey grip can be worth it to just use a 1d12 weapon with a shield, you pretty much get +4 damage a hit from it.

Finally, as for critical hits, NH does not seem to add much with them. You roll weapon dice normally, add your strength modifier, etc. Thus, your critical hit damage is likely to be only a slightly better than what you get as your regular one handed damage. It makes NH a bad idea for a high critical hit based build. (You do less attacks too, to boot, so less critical hits in total.) What it does however, is give you a massive damage per hit, even with a shield equipped, and you can pummel through DR of 20/- as if it were butter.

Does this help clarify the build and the feat? (I have not missed PA and IPA on my Barbarian, as NH seems to get the job done.)

[aaron22]

I had a perfect build for NH. I did a dpr comparison of it on and off. My dpr was exceedingly higher while I had it off and Ipa on. This was about 5 months ago and I am unsure if changes have been made, but I would much rather have Ipa as it clearly creates more damage on high bab toons.

[aaron22]

Also if the +2 ac bonus at 20 is natural it won't stack with ice troll so it kind of makes it meh. Or it makes taking ice troll useless so opens a feat up for you. And that is not meh.

[chad878262]

The natural AC from barb 20 stacks with everything.

[aaron22]

Even though ice troll specifically says it doesn't stack with any other form of natural ac bonus

[chad878262]

Even though ice troll specifically says it doesn't stack with any other form of natural ac bonus

Hmm. That pigs contradictory... will test when I get time as I don't recall.

[mrm3ntalist]

Where does it say ithat you get natural AC at level 20? It is dodge. Always was.

[aaron22]

Where does it say ithat you get natural AC at level 20? It is dodge. Always was.

It was said in the post. I assumed it was dodge or moral.

Also if the +2 ac bonus at 20 is natural it won't stack with ice troll so it kind of makes it meh. Or it makes taking ice troll useless so opens a feat up for you. And that is not meh.