Kit release: Cavalier and Divinate

[chad878262]

1) Do them affect the bonus epic feats paladins have at 23, 26 and 29? If I have understood it well the build would look something like, for example, 11 Paladin / 19 Cavalier,

no, they do not impact epic bonus feats. 11 Pal / 19 Cav would be the same as 30 Paladin. The only thing they lose is those things listed. So Cavalier loses Turn Undead (no EDM), Lay on Hands (best heal in the game) and Remove Disease and gains shield feats, free extra smiting, favored enemies, epic prowess and great smiting I (not currently working) for free. In all other aspects the character would be the same as a Paladin level 30.

2) The kit can be activated in any level? If so, what happens if abilities the kit denies have been already chosen? For example, True Believer is taken at 6th level and the Divinate kit activated at 7th. This means that you would lose then both Aura of Courage and Smite Evil at this point, right? If the kit can only be activated at 1st level, it means that True Believer must be taken as initial feat to activate the Divinate kit.

At whatever level you select the kit, those feats would be removed/lost. In the case of divinate you would operate as a normal paladin until you select the kit AND level up...so if you select True Believer at level 6 and select the kit you will become Divinate and lose Aura and smite once you level up to 7. If you wanted to become a divinate at level 2 you would have to select True Believer at level 1.

3) Do the kits affect the 3b20 rule?

I suppose this might require a DM ruling, but my assumption is they would not since in all ways they are a Paladin, not a true multi-class... Plus, for the most part if you take the kit you want 19 full levels so there would really be no benefit to chosing the kit after level 11 (and honestly, the abilities help sooner rather than later so it would actually be punishing you from a build perspective to select the kit later in level)...

Think about it, as a Cavalier wouldn't you want to gain those two juicy epic feats pre-epic levels? For divinate the auto-extend is also something that helps earlier rather than later.

[mrm3ntalist]

3) Do the kits affect the 3b20 rule?

I suppose this might require a DM ruling, but my assumption is they would not since in all ways they are a Paladin, not a true multi-class... Plus, for the most part if you take the kit you want 19 full levels so there would really be no benefit to chosing the kit after level 11 (and honestly, the abilities help sooner rather than later so it would actually be punishing you from a build perspective to select the kit later in level)...

Think about it, as a Cavalier wouldn't you want to gain those two juicy epic feats pre-epic levels? For divinate the auto-extend is also something that helps earlier rather than later.

The kits do not count as an extra class or PRC. You only need to have 3levels of the class the kit belongs to before lvl20. You can initialise the kit after level20 if you want.

[freekender]

Thanks Chad! Understood, except for a minor detail. Continuing with this example:

2) The kit can be activated in any level? If so, what happens if abilities the kit denies have been already chosen? For example, True Believer is taken at 6th level and the Divinate kit activated at 7th. This means that you would lose then both Aura of Courage and Smite Evil at this point, right? If the kit can only be activated at 1st level, it means that True Believer must be taken as initial feat to activate the Divinate kit.

At whatever level you select the kit, those feats would be removed/lost. In the case of divinate you would operate as a normal paladin until you select the kit AND level up...so if you select True Believer at level 6 and select the kit you will become Divinate and lose Aura and smite once you level up to 7. If you wanted to become a divinate at level 2 you would have to select True Believer at level 1.

Does it mean that in this case you retroacively gain Autoextend I from Cav 3? Or you would start from Cav 1 at the level you take it?

[chad878262]

You start at level 1 cavalier (or any kit) whenever you take the kit... You are a Paladin X, of which Y levels are associated to your kit. So if you take a kit at level 2, you are level 2 paladin, but level 1 Cavalier. As M3nt said, it's not the same as taking a second class, in this case you only have one class (paladin), your kit is just a subset of that class. Autoextend is a Divinate ability, but in your example if it was the divinate kit you would not retroactively gain the feat, but instead would acquire it when you reach the specified number of kit levels. Since the minimum level you can be to gain a kit is 2, this means you will always have at least 1 fewer kit levels than paladin (or whatever base class for future kits).

[Kiran]

Does Great smiting 1 now work?

[mrm3ntalist]

Does Great smiting 1 now work?

If you ask whether the kit grands the feat as it should then yes it does.

Otherwise, Great smiting as a feat always worked

[Kiran]

And can you then go for great smite 2 without the charisma required, or do you still require 25 charisma?

[mrm3ntalist]

And can you then go for great smite 2 without the charisma required, or do you still require 25 charisma?

You cant

[V'rass]

These kits sound good.

[vale100]

Would the Cavelier have access to "Bane of Enemies" if they put points into Survival or would it be possible to make adjustments that an equivalent skill is checked?

[mrm3ntalist]

Would the Cavelier have access to "Bane of Enemies" if they put points into Survival or would it be possible to make adjustments that an equivalent skill is checked?

No, they dont get access to Bane of Enemies.

[Tekill]

You Just have to pick the kit once, or do you select the kit each time you take a paldin level?
I assume you pick it the one time a everytime you take a paladin level after that, it will be with that kit- right?

[Theodore01]

Does it still break kit progression, if you take classes in another class and later continue in the kit class ?

[Theodore01]

Maybe it's fixed
Was unsure after that topic came up again - regarding the Divinate Kit a few days ago.

[BattleBee47]

Does it still break kit progression, if you take classes in another class and later continue in the kit class ?

I'm sure this was answered that it does not break the progression...But I am also curious as to if you do rotate levels, if you'd have to activate the kit again or if it's done automatically each Paladin Level??