The most important thing you can do (bigby spells)

[Sun Wukong]

Least Spell Mantle wand costs 21000 to craft, plus about 5000 for the bone wand, and then you have to raise the price to cover up the 10% commission fee of the consignment store, and maybe even make a small profit as the crafter. So what does that all sum up to? 30K? Little more?

Thus, you do get about one least spell mantle for about 600 gold pieces a cast. You do not get that much gold from a regular caster mob, and thus the use of this wand leans heavily towards caster bosses and PvP. Now, the question is, how often do you actually go after some bosses or even actively seek PvP against wizards? I mean, technically speaking, you are no longer required to 'solo bosses for loot' - and you can avoid most arcane casters by just walking past the campfire spots. Thus, even if you do purchase that wand, the 50 charges in it are not running out that fast for the stereotypical avarage player.

[amber91]

I'm confused as a newbie. I know the pain of basically IWIN @bigby, but
how does HIPS count as a defense against it?

Can someone explain to a dummy how I could use HiPS against casters or Bigby spells specifically?

[chad878262]

I'm confused as a newbie. I know the pain of basically IWIN @bigby, but
how does HIPS count as a defense against it?

Can someone explain to a dummy how I could use HiPS against casters or Bigby spells specifically?

If you enter HiPS before the spell is cast the mage loses the target. If you time it right they also lose the spell.

[AC81]

How many Bigby throwing mobs are there? There aren't many, and the areas where they are you should probably have a party. I like the idea of PvE monsters still utilising the old Bigby line. Gives everyone something to fear ... besides there are always ways around it, the AI isn't very smart. Just don't give the old Bigby's versions back to players.

@Calodan: I said I wasn't sure about SR vs. Bigby 6/9, but SR definitely works against Bigby 5.

[chad878262]

They get thrown at you liberally in the Nashkel Mines. Considering you also need about 50 AC against the melee mobs, get hit with various other spells and such it can be quite difficult in the appropriate CR range without either a very strong character or a party.

[AC81]

Aren't they just Bigby 5's though? The ones that reduce your AB?

[chad878262]

Aren't they just Bigby 5's though? The ones that reduce your AB?

Oh yeah, they aren't a deal breaker or anything, but really just annoying.

[AC81]

SR32 cloak takes care of them most of the time.

[amber91]

If you enter HiPS before the spell is cast the mage loses the target. If you time it right they also lose the spell.

i'm a bit confused how HIPS works, as I've never gotten Hide/MS past 50. I've seen how people use it to disappear instantly and then sneak attack right away, but I've never been able to tell if I try to pull it off against a PC if I succeed or fail.

Do you need to pass a spot skill check the moment you activate HIPS, or if you time it right, you can avoid spells anyway? In other words, if your Hide/MS skill is low (like 40-50), is HIPS a viable defense against Bigby/spells?

What skill is required for HIPS to be effective in hit-and-hide tactics? (I'm curious about how people do 100% unseen stealth all the time, and also for the purposes of this topic using HIPS as a viable spell defense in-combat)

[Blaze997]

Grease slows regardless of save. Cast two in one round with Quicken, layer them on and you can render anyone stuck.

touch of idiocy can be quite beneficial for a HiPS mage to render opposition casters useless.

Enervation allows no saving throw and immediately reduces levels, thus causing issues for saves against future spells.

Cloudkill reduces CON even without saves (synergy with layered grease)

Power Word Spells, especially with custom spells specifically to buff them can be fantastic with no saves allowed.

Acid Fog, again with Greases layered can also cause significant damage...same for Wall of Fire and/or Incendiary Cloud.

Avasculate cuts HP in half with no save. Very effective when followed up with Power Word Spells.

Energy Drain - See Enervation.

This is by new means a comprehensive list, but shows there are many spells that disable, damage, or debuff without allowing saves and, in some cases are not effected by spell resistance either. Bigby is far from the most problematic of them, even if it is one of the more popular.

Good post, but I would like to point out the following:
With grease, I may be slowed but at least im not paralyzed and I can fight back with ranged or use freedom.

Enervation or energy drain are touch attacks that must pass an attack roll and a concealment check, so I have a chance even with no save. I can also counter with restoration since Im not paralyzed.

Against evasculate and power words, at least there is a window where I could heal or run away because Im not paralyzed.

Cloudkill works slowly enough to give me a chance to fight back and doesnt paralyze me, see a theme?

[chad878262]

Bigby is countered by spell resistance, mantle, hips, or AC... why doesn't that for your theme?

[Blaze997]

Bigby is countered by spell resistance, mantle, hips, or AC... why doesn't that for your theme?

My point has been that those first 3 counter pretty much any spell equally, and that it's silly we must resort to those counters because the spells' checks are near impossible. Do you really think a check of 1d20 + full caster level + full stat modifier + 12 is reasonable? At level 20 that check is something like 1d20 + 20 + 8 +12. So an AC of 42 gives me a 0% chance. Against an endgame lvl 30 caster a 54 or 55 AC gives me a 0% chance. Even if I go hard for armor class it seems I have no chance. Also, spell resistance affects the initial hit but if that fails I still have no chance against the recurring grapple checks.

[chad878262]

None of those counter grease, not to mention the spells that aren't subject to SR. Is there any basis in pnp to change them?

Simply, a Wizard is more powerful than anything else if the player is good at it, even without bigby.

[amber91]

Also, spell resistance affects the initial hit but if that fails I still have no chance against the recurring grapple checks.

If this is how Spell Resistance works:
Caster: 1d20 + Caster Level + Feats + Bonus for Assay Resistance
Defender: Spell Resistance amount + penalties to spell resistance

Considering what's the highest SR armor for non-magic-using surface races? 32 non-stacking?
There is practically 0% chance to resist?

Does that sound right?

[chad878262]

Also, spell resistance affects the initial hit but if that fails I still have no chance against the recurring grapple checks.

If this is how Spell Resistance works:
Caster: 1d20 + Caster Level + Feats + Bonus for Assay Resistance
Defender: Spell Resistance amount + penalties to spell resistance

Considering what's the highest SR armor for non-magic-using surface races? 32 non-stacking?
There is practically 0% chance to resist?

Does that sound right?

Kinda similar to dispel vs breach, no? CL30 males you immune to dispel, but breach will always work. SR cam give you a chance, however small, but anyone can have a wand of mantle and be immune.