Rogue/Shadowdancer?

[Vermilion]

How many levels of Shadowdancer would you recommend taking for a sneaky rogue, also utilising Guild Thief? I've noticed the prc grants most of the prerequisite feats for Epic Dodge, which seems useful, but I don't want to reduce my sneak dice by too much given that most of them are rogue bonus feats anyway.

[K'yon Oblodra]

I'd say 3 or 5 either the bare minimum or 5 for defensive roll.

[Vermilion]

I'd say 3 or 5 either the bare minimum or 5 for defensive roll.

That was my thought. My characters hit like wet noodles at the best of times anyway. Stop sacrificing strength for intelligence and charisma? Never!

[Blackman D]

depends on your build i guess and if it would be better to only go 3 SD and get defensive roll as a normal rogue bonus or not, if you are worried about damage

[Vermilion]

Am I right in thinking Rog21/SD3/Guild Thief 4 will have 1 more AB than Rog20/SD33/GT5 at the same level. Don't have access to the NWN2DB at present

(I'm deliberately not adding up to 30)

[K'yon Oblodra]

Am I right in thinking Rog21/SD3/Guild Thief 4 will have 1 more AB than Rog20/SD33/GT5 at the same level. Don't have access to the NWN2DB at present

(I'm deliberately not adding up to 30)

The rule of 4 I was tought by Chad would indicate that the AB would be the same on both 21 gives no advantage over 20, 3 it is in both examples and 4 or 5 doesn't make a difference either.

Rule of 4 meaning you gain 1 BAB for each 4 levels in a medium BAB progression class.

That's actually a reason why SD5 might be worth it.

[Vermilion]

That was the rule, I couldn't remember the specifics!

[K'yon Oblodra]

Glad I could help

[Sun Wukong]

Nothing wrong with a Rogue 20/Shadowdancer 10 though, lets you use most of the rogue bonus feats in whatever epic feats you want. Rogue 15 is enough to open a path for Improved Sneak Attack, so you can spend the extra Rogue feats at level 16 an 19 to get +2d6 Sneak Attack, or whatever other epic feat you desire.

Now, with the same principle you could go for Rogue 20/Shadowdancer 5/Guild Thief 5, just to push as many rogue bonus feats to be taken during the epic levels. Rogue 10 for Crippling Strike, and 13 for Improved Evasion. This build should get about 13d6 Sneak Attack and BAB of 21.

Now, you could go for something like Rogue 22/Shadowdancer 3/Guild Thief 5 for a total of 14d6 sneak attack, which you also get from Rogue 23/Shadowdancer 3/Guild Thief 4. (This last option does get +1 BAB though, 22 instead of former's 21.) The dowside of these builds is that you need to spend one of the rogue bonus feat on Defensive Roll, which means less feats to take the many epic goodies you could get instead.

I would prefer to have that one extra epic feat. You know, it could be spent on Improved Sneak Attack dice to get another +1d6, Great Dexterity, Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting, Epic Dodge, Blinding Speed, Epic Prowess, Expose Weakness... Or whatever else that your build needs. Not to mention that eventually that Rogue 20/Guild Thief 5/Shadowdancer 5 looks pretty neat on your character sheet.

[mrm3ntalist]

One PRC to consider is 3 levels of Bodyguard. High BAB (+1BAB), Speed Increase, 2d6SA. With 3 levels you improve most things a rogue needs - Damage, Hit and more sustain ( speed ).

[K'yon Oblodra]

Would actually agree that 20/5/5 seems to be the sexiest of the level splits

Edit:the bodyguard was not visible at the time of my posting... Intriguing

[chad878262]

agree with M3nt. Best split would be R20/GT4/SD3/Bodyguard3. Loads of sneak dice, extra movement buff, and 4 rogue bonus feats.

[Sun Wukong]

Bodyguard just requires BAB of 6 too, so it is an easy PRC to get. I do not think it would be that far off character concept wise since you already are a guild thief. You know, you could also be some hired help.

Rogue 20/Guild Thief 4/Shadowdancer 3/Bodyguard 3

BAB of 23, 14d6 Sneak Attack, and you have to spend an extra rogue feat on Defensive Roll to get Epic Dodge.

I would personally rather go for a...

Rogue 19/Guild Thief 5/Shadowdancer 3/Bodyguard 3

BAB of 22, 15d6 Sneak Attack, and you have to spend an extra rogue feat on Defensive Roll to get Epic Dodge.

[chad878262]

either split works, I went for BAB, but the extra d6 sneak attack is good too.

[Vermilion]

http://nwn2db.com/build/?266809

So I've put this together - suggestions on the final two feats welcome!

I didn't go for Bodyguard as the RP for Elspeth definitely doesn't suggest "puts herself in harm's way for anyone else" even though it's an upgrade power-wise.

Poor rogue skills are something of a trope for the PC - she's very keen to talk up her skill but frequently (thanks to NWN2's evil weighted dice) traps blow up in her face. I'm quite enjoying it (this may change once she starts getting instaFugued by the epic divine ones...)