Epic Spell: Damnation

[Steve]

Has anyone had any experience using this Epic Spell? It's a 1/rest spell, right? Did you find it useful, mechanically? Or is it just too difficult to attain DCs enough to make its use reliable?

Cheers.

[Blackman D]

ive used it but yea DC is gonna be a problem probably, dont think mine was that high, ended up about the same as implosion i think but its a will save? if i remember right?

[Deathgrowl]

25 + caster stat. Spellcasting prodigy counts.

So, you determine whether your build gets satisfying DC or not. (Or are you asking what saves you should expect to run into...?)

Lets be honest, it's basically a fancy finger of death with will save instead of fortitude. And a cool effect on successful save. Oh and you have to be in melee range.

[Steve]

Yeah, it is a Will Save. Something like DC 25 + Ability modifier + 1 Spellcasting Prodigy (if you have it). I can get a build with +10 Ability mod and SP, so essentially 36 DC against Will.

If its a 1 per Rest Epic Spell, that's a big gamble, in most circumstances.

@ Deathgrowl: The description actually says one needs to make a successful melee touch attack!!

[Deathgrowl]

Uh. Yeah, I guess? Maybe balance suggests that a will save spell is more powerful than a fortitude one. Also, death ward (and similar) apparently doesn't save you from this one. That's another reason to counter its power with making it MTA. But you can get this basically with only medium bab classes. Wizard/Sorcerer can't get this. So MTAs aren't a huge problem, I should think?

[Steve]

It is a one shot, but with an attack success and a DC success. Knowing how the NWN2 engine works, have to succeed twice for something, is almost certain failure!

Maybe if Spell Focus feats also affected the DC, then you could get at upwards of 39 DC, which would help.

MTA is bothersome, though yeah, the chances to hit are decent, if not actually good. It also means a HiPSing opponent or an opponent going Invisible could ruin the 1 chance your PC has to utilize the spell.

[Deathgrowl]

I'm personally not a big fan of epic spells, as they take up important epic feat slots. On a pure cleric, you can get 34 wisdom base, spellcasting prodigy, and one epic spell, cast owl's wisdom and have 15 modifier. That'll place your epic spell at 40 DC. Better then to use that epic feat for epic spell focus evocation and cast a 43 DC implosion.

Wouldn't you say?

[Steve]

Yeah, I've realized that Lvl 9 spells can be much more reliable than Epic Spells, depending. Which is why I asked if user experience on BGTSCC with Damnation is different than what I imagine it to be.

[sir_blacksoutalot]

Is there not an advantage to the stun effect from this spell? Even on a successful save:

"Creatures that succeed at their saving throw are nonetheless exhausted from resisting so powerful an enchantment, and they are Dazed for 1d6+1 rounds."

So the enemy either (1) dies instantly or (2) gets stunned for a 2–7 rounds. That might not be a bad opener if you then want to hit it with debuffs or even make a quick escape. I guess the downside is that it's still subject to SR so might not work at all on the more powerful bosses.

[Deathgrowl]

Definitely an advantage. Still have to MTA, though.

[Steve]

The daze is good, but:

Immunity to mind-affecting effects does not stop the spell either, but negates the daze effect on a successful save.

[Moltrazahn]

I had this on my warlock back in the day. Never... "Really" paid off when I wanted it to. However, did have some fun moments with it. Killed a DM's "End giant boss" when everyone had buffed up, done the heroic monolog, and charged in.

1 second after I entered the battle. Boss was dead.
Everyone was stunned at what had happened.
Even the DM was like "Ehm... one sec guys".
After a moment, I realized that my big nice floppy epic spell had finally worked!
#momentofpride.

[JCVD1]

I'd change the spell to actually send the PC to Avernus, where he dies, or not, from a horrible death.

[Valefort]

Problem is that people could lose exp for losing a PvP.

[aaron22]

Problem is that people could lose exp for losing a PvP.

#exposeweaknessbug