Bodyguard Aura AC
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- DeepFriedMoose
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Bodyguard Aura AC
This is a REALLY intersting PrC with apparently a lot of heavy flaws, and I would love to see it become more viable for PC's to take. As it stands, the flaws I'm aware of include:
--- Guarding the Lord having an unmanageable short range, which breaks the spell frequently* (I noticed a post on this some time ago, which mentioned some fixes. Have they been implemented? What's the status on this?)
--- Protective Aura AC doesn't stack, and is therefore practically useless**
--- All-Out-Assault provides only a nominal increase in damage (as per another post)
May I suggest:
--- Increase the range of Guard the Lord. This seems to have been talked about, but I'm unaware of its current status. Could someone comment on this?
--- Change the AC bonus from Deflection to Luck or Dodge, or Shield, or anything that stacks. I made mention of this in the other post about Guarding the Lord. Basic wizard spells, and/or base-level gear make this feat useless, so there has to be something to improve it, right?
--- ??? I'm really not sure what to do with Assault, but I feel it should be better for the extra levels it takes for this not to be a dip-class. Maybe add extra d6 damage? increase critical threat for 3 rounds? [Maximize + Bodyguard level] in damage?
I'd also love to hear what others have to say. As I said, I think this class has awesome potential, but that potential is short-cut by some pretty basic things, making this PrC way less valuable than it should be.
Thanks all!
~ DFM
* With 3/day, this seems like it would go up quickly.
** Anyone over lvl 2 has a deflection bonus to an item, rendering this feat useless at the minimum lvl 7 it takes to get it.
--- Guarding the Lord having an unmanageable short range, which breaks the spell frequently* (I noticed a post on this some time ago, which mentioned some fixes. Have they been implemented? What's the status on this?)
--- Protective Aura AC doesn't stack, and is therefore practically useless**
--- All-Out-Assault provides only a nominal increase in damage (as per another post)
May I suggest:
--- Increase the range of Guard the Lord. This seems to have been talked about, but I'm unaware of its current status. Could someone comment on this?
--- Change the AC bonus from Deflection to Luck or Dodge, or Shield, or anything that stacks. I made mention of this in the other post about Guarding the Lord. Basic wizard spells, and/or base-level gear make this feat useless, so there has to be something to improve it, right?
--- ??? I'm really not sure what to do with Assault, but I feel it should be better for the extra levels it takes for this not to be a dip-class. Maybe add extra d6 damage? increase critical threat for 3 rounds? [Maximize + Bodyguard level] in damage?
I'd also love to hear what others have to say. As I said, I think this class has awesome potential, but that potential is short-cut by some pretty basic things, making this PrC way less valuable than it should be.
Thanks all!
~ DFM
* With 3/day, this seems like it would go up quickly.
** Anyone over lvl 2 has a deflection bonus to an item, rendering this feat useless at the minimum lvl 7 it takes to get it.
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- kleomenes
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Re: Bodyguard Aura AC
Guarding the Lord just increased to double range (I think) if not more. I've only used it once in the new state, but it felt much more usable. The problem is transitioning still breaks it. I do wonder if increasing number of uses would be good!
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- LuvHandles
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Re: Bodyguard Aura AC
My character will be taking 3 levels of this PRC for no other reason than because the concept of the bodyguard fits with his character. I was planning on taking all five levels until I got a closer look at the level 4 and level 5 feats and I just couldn't bring myself to "throw away" 2 levels.
Disclaimer: I currently have only one level in the class.
Protective Aura not stacking the AC bonus makes it near useless. The saves are nice but typically they won't make much of a difference. If the AC stacked then this feat would be nice, and taking 4 level in this PRC would be valuable.
Guarding the Lord being a variation on a long duration spell might as well be unlimited use to get around the issues that plague it (which I have not yet experienced first hand). It's a nice upgrade to Shield Other though, so it has value even with the current difficulties.
Frantic Reactions is, in my opinion, the best feature of the class. +2 AC against AOO's, 10% move speed bonus and 2d6 Sneak Attack? All very nice.
Things go down hill from there, level 4 gives a minor upgrade to Protective Aura, but with AC not stacking, it really just amounts to the tiniest of saving throw increases. And All-Out-Assault, well for a cap stone feat it's really disappointing.
In the end, two additional fighter levels giving an extra bonus feat were more appealing to me than the last two levels of bodyguard. If the dev team ever decides to revisit the class, then an RCR may be in my future, but for now 3 levels in the class are all that i see as viable.
Disclaimer: I currently have only one level in the class.
Protective Aura not stacking the AC bonus makes it near useless. The saves are nice but typically they won't make much of a difference. If the AC stacked then this feat would be nice, and taking 4 level in this PRC would be valuable.
Guarding the Lord being a variation on a long duration spell might as well be unlimited use to get around the issues that plague it (which I have not yet experienced first hand). It's a nice upgrade to Shield Other though, so it has value even with the current difficulties.
Frantic Reactions is, in my opinion, the best feature of the class. +2 AC against AOO's, 10% move speed bonus and 2d6 Sneak Attack? All very nice.
Things go down hill from there, level 4 gives a minor upgrade to Protective Aura, but with AC not stacking, it really just amounts to the tiniest of saving throw increases. And All-Out-Assault, well for a cap stone feat it's really disappointing.
In the end, two additional fighter levels giving an extra bonus feat were more appealing to me than the last two levels of bodyguard. If the dev team ever decides to revisit the class, then an RCR may be in my future, but for now 3 levels in the class are all that i see as viable.
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- DeepFriedMoose
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Re: Bodyguard Aura AC
This is exactly what I mean, and thank you for mentioning this, LH. This shouldn't be only a RP class. It should have mechanical value as well. I haven't taken any Bodyguard levels myself just yet, but I've been eyeing it for the same reasons -- it would fit well with the concept. But, as I look at in now, I think I could make better use of 5 levels of fighter.LuvHandles wrote:My character will be taking 3 levels of this PRC for no other reason than because the concept of the bodyguard fits with his character.
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- Moltrazahn
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Re: Bodyguard Aura AC
I love this class, given that it aids your group. For a High HP (Or regen) character. Guard the Lord is amazing. Also great for any aura character (ei. bard) to give your team that extra benefit.
I'd fully support the Aura stacking with everything else. Given that you yourself don't get it, going to level 4 is a purely teamplayer-choice.
I have -never- taken level 5 on this class. So if something was done to improve its appeal... Perhaps that would be interesting. Maybe an overhaul of the Assult-ability or perhaps even a bonus feat at the 5th.
I'd fully support the Aura stacking with everything else. Given that you yourself don't get it, going to level 4 is a purely teamplayer-choice.
I have -never- taken level 5 on this class. So if something was done to improve its appeal... Perhaps that would be interesting. Maybe an overhaul of the Assult-ability or perhaps even a bonus feat at the 5th.
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Re: Bodyguard Aura AC
I would suggest the Level 5 capstone feat be something to enhance the Guard the Lord concept. Maybe something like:Moltrazahn wrote:I have -never- taken level 5 on this class. So if something was done to improve its appeal... Perhaps that would be interesting. Maybe an overhaul of the Assult-ability or perhaps even a bonus feat at the 5th.
n times per day, the bodyguard can use themselves as a distraction to hide their lord. This spell-like ability is equivalent to a sanctuary spell cast at the bodyguards character level. The body guards constitution is used as the casting stat, thus higher constitution results in a higher DC to the will save for those attempting to resist the affects of the feat. This spell cannot be cast on the bodyguard herself.[/td][/tr][/table]
I think that feat combined with changing the aura AC bonuses to stack would be compelling enough to encourage people to take all 5 levels.
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Re: Bodyguard Aura AC
I'm not sure everyone really understands how good this PRC is. My old buddy Aelcar (who no longer patrols these waters) used to say it was one of the best PRC's out there no one bothers to take. Let's consider what you get for a 3 level dip of Bodyguard:
- Skills that you would not get from Fighter base class: Heal, Listen, Search, Spot, Diplomacy, Craft Alchemy, Concentration. Heal, Listen, Search and Spot all have mechanical value, Craft Alchemy is nice if you want to avoid cross class skills and take Annointed Knight / Warrior of Darkness, Concentration can be nice if you are aiming for a kind of gish type and Diplomacy is a great RP skill vs. Intimidate (which Bodyguard gets, but so do most fighter type classes). For our server, Bodyguard also gets Lore: Local, History, Royalty and Nobility for RP. In addition to all of this, the Bodyguard get's 4 Skill points / level vs. most melee classes which receive only 2.
- Guarding the Lord, I'll give this one to you... Might be better to make it dodge AC so it does stack. +2 AC is not anything OP and it only applies to allies. I am a fan of class enhancements that encourage grouping up.
- Frantic Reactions, sorry, this is the reason to take this class... 10% movement speed is great for any build for a 3 level dip that is NOT a base class (no XP penalty issues). 2d6 sneak attack for 3 levels is better than any rogue PRC aside from Assassin, most only get 1d6 / 3 levels at best. Sure, it is only an average of 7 damage when you qualify for sneak damage, but in conjunction with something like Ghost Faced Killer, Blackguard or invisible blade with Feint and high bluff it can be a pretty decent combination. +2 against AoO's is nothing great, but gaining 2d6 sneak dice for 3 levels on a high BAB class is great, and this is the only class that provides it. It also can qualify you for Arcane Trickster or Daggerspell mage to avoid XP penalties for certain races looking to build those PRC's.
- All out Assault is fine, but not a reason to go 5 levels. I like this class as a final 3 level dip to another build. For instance if you don't want to make the standard rogue dip for evasion/expose weakness/tumble/umd access either because of RP reasons or to avoid an XP penalty you could go F12/WM8/FB5/Bodyguard5 or F14/WM8/FB5/Bodyguard3. between ki strike and all-out assault the Bodyguard 5 might be worth losing the extra epic feat from Fighter 14...
So I guess I am saying in my opinion we should look to change the AC benefit of Guarding the Lord to make it luck or dodge, probably dodge. I will also bring up the range QC side, but other than that, in my opinion this is a great class to take for many build types, not just the WM style I provided as example. I don't think the class needs anything major to make it more desirable, but providing a better AC type to help companions is a decent option and making the range 20' instead of 10' is probably fine.
EDIT: Totally forgot about the high Reflex and Will save which is also really great for melee non-caster builds! Leave it to Valefort to find that one thing I forget about!
- Skills that you would not get from Fighter base class: Heal, Listen, Search, Spot, Diplomacy, Craft Alchemy, Concentration. Heal, Listen, Search and Spot all have mechanical value, Craft Alchemy is nice if you want to avoid cross class skills and take Annointed Knight / Warrior of Darkness, Concentration can be nice if you are aiming for a kind of gish type and Diplomacy is a great RP skill vs. Intimidate (which Bodyguard gets, but so do most fighter type classes). For our server, Bodyguard also gets Lore: Local, History, Royalty and Nobility for RP. In addition to all of this, the Bodyguard get's 4 Skill points / level vs. most melee classes which receive only 2.
- Guarding the Lord, I'll give this one to you... Might be better to make it dodge AC so it does stack. +2 AC is not anything OP and it only applies to allies. I am a fan of class enhancements that encourage grouping up.
- Frantic Reactions, sorry, this is the reason to take this class... 10% movement speed is great for any build for a 3 level dip that is NOT a base class (no XP penalty issues). 2d6 sneak attack for 3 levels is better than any rogue PRC aside from Assassin, most only get 1d6 / 3 levels at best. Sure, it is only an average of 7 damage when you qualify for sneak damage, but in conjunction with something like Ghost Faced Killer, Blackguard or invisible blade with Feint and high bluff it can be a pretty decent combination. +2 against AoO's is nothing great, but gaining 2d6 sneak dice for 3 levels on a high BAB class is great, and this is the only class that provides it. It also can qualify you for Arcane Trickster or Daggerspell mage to avoid XP penalties for certain races looking to build those PRC's.
- All out Assault is fine, but not a reason to go 5 levels. I like this class as a final 3 level dip to another build. For instance if you don't want to make the standard rogue dip for evasion/expose weakness/tumble/umd access either because of RP reasons or to avoid an XP penalty you could go F12/WM8/FB5/Bodyguard5 or F14/WM8/FB5/Bodyguard3. between ki strike and all-out assault the Bodyguard 5 might be worth losing the extra epic feat from Fighter 14...
So I guess I am saying in my opinion we should look to change the AC benefit of Guarding the Lord to make it luck or dodge, probably dodge. I will also bring up the range QC side, but other than that, in my opinion this is a great class to take for many build types, not just the WM style I provided as example. I don't think the class needs anything major to make it more desirable, but providing a better AC type to help companions is a decent option and making the range 20' instead of 10' is probably fine.
EDIT: Totally forgot about the high Reflex and Will save which is also really great for melee non-caster builds! Leave it to Valefort to find that one thing I forget about!

Last edited by chad878262 on Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bodyguard Aura AC
While I agree that level 4-5 are a bit underwhelming the 1-3 are excellent, even if the deflection AC is not very useful.
It's a high BAB class with sneak attack, movement speed bonus, opening some important skills (detection skills and heal skill) and absolutely 0 requirements (except BAB). Also Reflex and Will save progression, usually very good for melee types.
In my opinion it doesn't need any change, even the AC type to be honest.
It's a high BAB class with sneak attack, movement speed bonus, opening some important skills (detection skills and heal skill) and absolutely 0 requirements (except BAB). Also Reflex and Will save progression, usually very good for melee types.
In my opinion it doesn't need any change, even the AC type to be honest.
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- LuvHandles
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Re: Bodyguard Aura AC
With regards to skills, I don't understand why bodyguards don't get Sense Motive. But that's another discussion.
The thing we all seem to agree on is that the level 1-3 feats are excellent, especially Frantic Reactions at 3, but that the last two levels are less compelling to the player. My goal would be to make those last two levels enticing enough that someone doesn't immediately dismiss them in favor of another class. My previous suggestion was an attempt to do this while having minimal impact on players who currently have level in the class, but adding flavor and value to the remaining levels.
A more controversial change might be to break Frantic Reactions into three parts gained over levels 3-5, though I am not sure if AC against AOO's can be scripted separately. Maybe using the Mobility feat instead we could do something like this:
level 3 : 1d6 sneak attack
level 4 : 10% movement speed (in addition to Aura II)
level 5 : 2d6 sneak attack, Mobility (in addition to All-Out-Assault)
This would reduce the number of "three level" dippers into the class by smoothing out the power progression of the classes feats and give a compelling reason to take the class all the way to level 5.
The thing we all seem to agree on is that the level 1-3 feats are excellent, especially Frantic Reactions at 3, but that the last two levels are less compelling to the player. My goal would be to make those last two levels enticing enough that someone doesn't immediately dismiss them in favor of another class. My previous suggestion was an attempt to do this while having minimal impact on players who currently have level in the class, but adding flavor and value to the remaining levels.
A more controversial change might be to break Frantic Reactions into three parts gained over levels 3-5, though I am not sure if AC against AOO's can be scripted separately. Maybe using the Mobility feat instead we could do something like this:
level 3 : 1d6 sneak attack
level 4 : 10% movement speed (in addition to Aura II)
level 5 : 2d6 sneak attack, Mobility (in addition to All-Out-Assault)
This would reduce the number of "three level" dippers into the class by smoothing out the power progression of the classes feats and give a compelling reason to take the class all the way to level 5.
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Re: Bodyguard Aura AC
What's wrong with having PRC's that are solid up front dip classes? Should we also move HiPS to ShadowDancer 10 to encourage the full 10 levels? (which would just push people to instead take assassin)...
I opened up a topic in QC for discussion on the class, particularly the Guarding the Lord ability, but there is also some discussion of making All-out-assault more attractive. I don't think the answer is removing/reducing the power gained at level 3, which is what makes this PRC so attractive to many players.
I opened up a topic in QC for discussion on the class, particularly the Guarding the Lord ability, but there is also some discussion of making All-out-assault more attractive. I don't think the answer is removing/reducing the power gained at level 3, which is what makes this PRC so attractive to many players.
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Re: Bodyguard Aura AC
There is nothing wrong with it, as I am doing exactly that with Taron. I am just trying to add some food for thought. Thank you for taking the initiative to begin an internal discussion about this and we the players will wait to see what you all decide.
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Re: Bodyguard Aura AC
Id be down for moving the good benefits to 5th... and having hips moved to SD 10th
. Makes more sense to me that the good stuff (wich you take the class for in the first place) is an investment.

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Re: Bodyguard Aura AC
Just a little follow up. I now have 2 levels of Bodyguard. Guarding the Lord range seems fine and it is not breaking on changing zones, only when I am out of range of the target.
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Re: Bodyguard Aura AC
As was mentioned earlier in the thread, the class's abilities are pretty solid if for the level 3 alone - 2d6 sneak attacks and movement speed increase and full BAB progression! Additionally, since there is no surefire other mechanic for 'stealing aggro' on mobs to protect a squishy party member, Guarding the Lord is the next best thing (even if it's used reflexively mid-fight at short range rather than as a long-term buff).
On the topic of the aura not stacking, I've actually found this to be a fine trade-off for how potent the rest of the kit is. Plenty of PrCs tend to have the occasional 'flavor' ability that doesn't actually have that impressive/extensive use (i.e. assassin Poison Resistance, monks laugh in your general direction) but don't deter those taking the class for the other things it offers (i.e. assassin HiPS). Considering the PRC only needs 6 BAB to dip into it, it's already pretty solid for what it offers.
On the topic of the aura not stacking, I've actually found this to be a fine trade-off for how potent the rest of the kit is. Plenty of PrCs tend to have the occasional 'flavor' ability that doesn't actually have that impressive/extensive use (i.e. assassin Poison Resistance, monks laugh in your general direction) but don't deter those taking the class for the other things it offers (i.e. assassin HiPS). Considering the PRC only needs 6 BAB to dip into it, it's already pretty solid for what it offers.
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Re: Bodyguard Aura AC
Is there any chance to remove this effect completly due to it being literally useless?
It gets impossible to speak a language requiring translation when any bodyguard is close due to "You have multiple items equipped or spell effects active that give deflection AC" message spam.
It gets impossible to speak a language requiring translation when any bodyguard is close due to "You have multiple items equipped or spell effects active that give deflection AC" message spam.