str, dex or con for melee lock

[aaron22]

want to build a surface melee lock and would prefer tie but not dead set on that part. wondering what people think of between building toward dex/str, str/con, dex/int builds. my fav with a tie was a dex/int R15/WL15 with PTWF, epic dodge, and combat insight. 8d6SA and 10d6 blast. i also built a human with dragonslayer fighter and BG for Divine shield and saves. what do you guys think?

[Deathgrowl]

Melee warlock? Probably not constitution at least. With hideous blow, you actually have to beat AC, not just touch AC. You'd want to have good AB. So strength or dexterity with finesse.

[chad878262]

If you are building a melee lock you should not be R15/Lock15... You should be going WL13/A8/DSM9 or WL7/R10/SD3/DSM10 or some other combination of HiPS, sneak and blast dice. If you go this combo you want DEX 25 with PTWF.

You can also go for a straight up melee lock and go for STR/CON split or DEX/INT split, but you don't have nearly as many buffs as a true gish and thus will be heavily reliant on UMD. IMO this is a pretty weak route for a Warlock. If you are going Fighter/Lock/DragonSlayer you could go with the STR/CON melee build and by no means is it 'weak', it is just weaker than a Daggerspell mage with HiPS or a max CON blaster warlock.

For Blaster Lock you want DEX ~14 or 16 (20 after buff) and max CON. This is good to go Lock27/DS3.

[aaron22]

cant do dsm for alignment reasons and the rogue 15 lock 15 wont be able to hit out of invis well enough. pull with blast. invis then SA for big dmg? i havent played anything like this so not sure at all.

[chad878262]

Honestly I would not make a sneak attack Warlock without DSM. You won't have enough blast dice to qualify for Eldritch Master while having minimal sneak dice and missing Epic Dodge unless you really skimp on Warlock levels.

What you could do is make the warlock portion secondary. Something like R16/A8/Lock3/DS3 or R10/A8/Lock3/DS9 or R10/SD3/Lock7/DS10 in order to have a HiPSing Rogue with some warlock abilities. If you aren't going to get Eldritch Master I would lean towards making warlock a 'dip' more than anything. However, I think you will be underwhelmed with the final product.

[aaron22]

well to get both epic dodge and eldrich master i only need 13 levels of rogue and 13 levels of warlock 7d6 + 2d6 from practiced. does it not work this way? is there something i am missing?

[chad878262]

well to get both epic dodge and eldrich master i only need 13 levels of rogue and 13 levels of warlock 7d6 + 2d6 from practiced. does it not work this way? is there something i am missing?

Hmmm, maybe it does... but you need 16 levels of rogue. You need Improved Evasion and Defensive Roll for Epic Dodge, but you also need Crippling Strike in order to get Epic Precision... So I guess R16/Lock14? Even then I think you have to be careful with leveling, R16 has to come on 29 in order to get Defensive Roll and Epic Dodge as the last 2 feats. It might be really tough to level, but I imagine you'd want R10 by level 21 and W13 ASAP to get Eldritch Master, so R9/Lock11 at 20, R10 at 21, then Lock 13, then take Rogue up to 16 and finish with Warlock. This means you will likely either need to take Able Learner feat or try and save points up between levels and perhaps 'waste' some skill points paying 2 for 1.

[aaron22]

but shouldnt be feat starved due to not having any PrC's to fill. so able learner seems fine. will this build be gimp to all heck. shouldnt it be able to pull-invis-SA and hit regularly.

[chad878262]

but shouldnt be feat starved due to not having any PrC's to fill. so able learner seems fine. will this build be gimp to all heck. shouldnt it be able to pull-invis-SA and hit regularly.

It will still be a bit feat starved... Consider: You need Weapon Finesse, TWF, ITWF, GTWF and Able Learner, so you have 2 pre-epic feats with which to pick, which is fine, but like any TWF build that doesn't include some fighter those 4 feats for Two Weapon Fighting and DEX to AB are costly.

In epics, you will really feel how feat starved it is and have to pick what to drop. I haven't done the math on number of feats, but you want: Epic Precision, Epic Prowess, Expose Weakness, Eldritch Master, Perfect Two Weapon Fighting and Epic Dodge. That is 6 epic feats and I think you only get 5 (21, 23, 25, 27 and 29)... So are you going to drop your 1/2 sneak damage vs. crit immune? Drop PTWF? Tough decisions...

[aaron22]

well if i know i wont be able to take epic precision then that opens up that i wont need R16 only 13.

[wangxiuming]

Note that eldritch blast dice progression does not happen every odd level. You don't reach EB 9d6 until your invoker level is 20, so you'll need at least 16 levels of Warlock (or prestige class that increases invoker level like Daggerspell Mage) + Practiced Invoker to get 9d6 eldritch blast.

http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Warlock#Addi ... ogressions

[aaron22]

Note that eldritch blast dice progression does not happen every odd level. You don't reach EB 9d6 until your invoker level is 20, so you'll need at least 16 levels of Warlock (or prestige class that increases invoker level like Daggerspell Mage) + Practiced Invoker to get 9d6 eldritch blast.

http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Warlock#Addi ... ogressions

*puts dice in bag, picks up the pencil and paper and leaves his mean friends house.*

[aaron22]

even with that said. this should be as good as i can get from this type of build anyway.
http://nwn2db.com/build/?268930

[chad878262]

You could always go R10/Warlock 20 and forego Epic Dodge. Or Warlock 21/A9, though no epic precision, you do get HiPS and it isn't like your eldritch blasts/hideous blow won't allow you to damage undead. Just be aware that Assassin does not grant evasion so no expose weakness.

[aaron22]

this build sorta feels like it would play similar to a phantom build. getting epic dodge is clearly a bonus but doesnt get the cool ac bonuses from phantom.