Would u still play on BGTSCC if yr Toon had only "X" Lives?

[Steve]

What if it was only 1? Or, maybe 3 lives? How about 3 deaths in DM events? Or, only 3 deaths in DM Events that were not mechanical failures (or DM prerogative?)?

Or what about just bringing Permastrikes back? Make Permastrikes Great Again! This would be yuuuuuuge, son!

Conflict RP is lots of fun. Like so many games, it gets down to winning or losing...but usually, you can play again! So how can we change up these PvP/CvC/Conflict RP rules so that there is a WHOLE BUNCH MORE EDGE to RPing and Character play, even if avoiding conflicts between Characters, yet, there is some kind of energy behind the concept of Staying Alive.

That used to be a Big Part of the D&D Adventure.

So what would it take for people to get onboard? 100% RCR? Greater Rewards for the Risks? Short but dedicated DM attention (think: Campaign(s))?

Would you still play on BGTSCC if your Toon was given a "life limitation?" And how would that affect your RolePlay?

[dedude]

Would never fly if PvP was included. For PvE/DM events it would be cool though. Start with X "lives", each PvE death has a small chance to take one of your "lives", chance increasing slightly with level.

I feel a "medium RP server!" comment approaching though

[chad878262]

With what I know NOW, yep, sure...absolutely.

If this existed the first year or so I played? Probably not. There is a STEEP learning curve that is easy to forget when you have played on this (or any) PW vs. single player. For myself, I never played on any PW (other than on NWN1 once for about 10 minutes) before BGtSCC and the first several weeks were fun, but frustrating. As the newness wore off a bit over the months, but I was still exclusively playing my one character and constantly going in area's (unknowingly) above my CR I would likely have given up... getting to level 15 and being on the last life would have likely done me in (or worse, in to the low 20's or higher). Simply put it take a LONG time to learn things. This would really be something that would likely cause a lot of less experienced players to seek other PW's or give up on NWN2 PW's all together.

Such a system is great for 'old guard' players that already know all (or most) of the server, but for those who don't, it would likely become a frustrating experience constantly starting over or RCR'ing when you get down to your last life and losing whatever RP has built up over time. In addition, for those who have the goal of getting their character to level 30 it would become doubly frustrating. 100% RCR could help, sure, but kind of defeats the purpose since when someone reached their last life they could just RCR back in to the same character with a new set of lives.

[VillageGreenWitch]

Just two days ago I perma'd a char of mine after she was killed in a pvp - my first pvp in ages as I usually avoid it like the plague.


I would love to see BGTSCC going a lot more into the direction of RPG and away from "high fantasy MMO(R)PG".

Max level of 10 (9 for ECL 1, 8 for ECL 2), serious cutdown of magic and overpowered feats and items, massive cutdown on monster OPness as well, at max 2 toons, requirement to send in an application for your character in order to enable her/him to level up beyond level 2 - and permadeath of course, regardless if PvE, PvP or DM event.

I'd love to see characters behave responsibly.
And that requires that players fear a real loss. Some replaceable xp are not a real loss.


To answer your question: I would not still play here, I'd likeit even more than I do now.

[Mork]

To be honest I see it could work in some situations and completely fail in others.
For example some deaths of players I've seen were too random. Not a single hint to what is about to happen and then BAM! 5 or 6 chars not just dead but turned to dust.
(rezzed later)

I'd certainly seriously consider playing here if all it took to delete my character would be failed saving throw.

For PvP it would fail simply to game mechanics as not everyone wants to play a powerbuild. Not to mention It would suck out all fun both for victorious and loosing side.

I like how it works at the moment where permastrike is a warning for a player to stop doing extrealmy stupid things on events.

But perhaps we could make things interesting with mechanical wounds system? Like: Lasting 1 week or so reset-persisting penalties to stats.
Blocked equipment slots for severed hand that it takes a week to regenerate.
Slowed speed for arrows to the knee that was poisoned with special concoction that prevents healing magic.

Stuff like that could potentially work.

[dedude]

Say you have 10 lives, and the chance of losing a live was 1% per level, and it didn't kick in until after level 8-ish? You would have to be extremely unlucky (or reckless) to be close to death at 15. Perma-death doesn't have to be a lightning strike death, it can be a slow incremental thing to symbolize the wear and tear on your character - so it becomes part of your character. For most characters it would most likely never become an issue.

But I agree that RCR + muling sort of defeats the purpose of this.

[Mork]

Say you have 10 lives, and the chance of losing a live was 1% per level, and it didn't kick in until after level 8-ish? You would have to be extremely unlucky (or reckless) to be close to death at 15

Regarding that I'd completely agree with chad. When I started here I've made low fort save char. Sometimes I've randomly died while exploring due to not knowing CR of certain area, other times I was randomly killed by failed fort save on death type spell like destruction. There was absolutely no way for me to know what areas have those spellcasters. I just died with absolutely zero influence I've had on the subject. That is why if we'll ever consider PvE deaths to be reason for permastrike at best case we'll create a server full of old veteran players only, where any newbie resigns very fast.

[amber91]

Short answer: yes, I would still play!

Long answer: I would play very differently, or in different ways depending on how it's implemented.

One thing that I think should be at the forefront of the discussion of such permadeath mechanics is that right now (or forever?) it seems like there is a lot of cognitive dissonance and gameplay dichotomy between RP vs. munchkinism in the way both gameplay mechanics and server rules are implemented and enforced... that really ruins both sides of the experience. Permadeath would likely exacerbate these underlying issues.


If permadeath comes from regular gameplay mechanics (death from mobs, etc.) --> players will tend to munchkinism even more.

If permadeath comes from RP --> I imagine players will separate their "RP-killable" characters from their munchkin "immortal" characters, splitting the RP vs munchkin world even more starkly

The meta levels of pretense that people call "RP" on the server will reach new heights of meta.

Ideally, permadeath (or every other system) would be a system that helps bring the two worlds of RP and munchkin closer together, not farther apart, but that's me asking for world peace.


Maybe rather than present the solution (e.g. permadeath), we could start with discussing the problem that precipitated the suggestion? Do people not feel enough gravity in the RP atmosphere that they need to incorporate permanent character loss? What is the underlying issue you are trying to address?

[Flasmix]

Say you have 10 lives, and the chance of losing a live was 1% per level, and it didn't kick in until after level 8-ish? You would have to be extremely unlucky (or reckless) to be close to death at 15.

Flasmix imagines the future PMs/Tells if this system was in place.

"Hello DMs, I was in a dungeon with my friend and I lagged out and crashed. When I logged in I was in the fugue and lost one of my lives! Can I get a refund on it?"

[Planehopper]

The only way this would work is if it was regulated by DMs completely, or if the mechanics of the server improved to a consistently playable level. I don't see any one of those being viable.

I don't think DMs want the hassle of handing out deaths like that, and even if they did it would be sporadic and uneven even if by no fault of their own (just as event participation is, etc). They cant be everywhere, all of the time. They can't cover every time zone the same.

Mechanically, even when things are running snappy and smooth, lag happens. Things break. Bugs occur. All of these can kill a character fairly easily while in combat.

To answer the theoretical question, yes. I'd try it out. I have played on a server like this (Thesk, back in the day. Full death, loot drop, etc. It was hardcore) and while enjoyable it definitely changed the play style of everyone there. Dangers were real. The wilds were wild. There was a whoooole lot more in town RP.

[professiondude]

I would love the X lives per character. Gives what I would call "True Value" to your IC actions.
Lets do it

[Xorena]

RP is about the journey, not the destination. I'm not here to get elite gear and max level right away. I want there to be consequences for Perle's actions.

If I'm not paranoid about kidnapping or death where is the excitement?

EDIT: I do not want a perm decided by broken game fight mechanics.

I pick feats and skill points for RP reasons. I'll get beat by a min/max character any day of the week.

[The Whistler]

Good post, amber91. With regard to OP's question, yes I would but I feel that permakill incentives would go a longer way to convince people to retire their characters whenever sensible rather than enforcing it via a rudimentary X lives rule.

What do I mean ? Lower exp rebate from the RCR bot when you're retiring for an RP reason (yes, you could argue that such can be exploited. But does it hurt anyone, really ?). Whether the reason holds water or not would be up to the DMs discretion.

Quicker leveling also promotes detachment from your PCs. It means you do not feel as invested into a character and are more likely to throw her/him aside if the situation calls for it. That's just two ideas from the top of my head; folk could come up with better and more if sufficient thought is given to the matter.

[TarnishedSoul]

No. The concept seems nice in theory, but implementation and application would make it a nightmare. If BG was a hardcore RP server, then it'd be great. If lag and DDOSers and connectivity issues weren't issues, then it'd be great.

[Pimple]

If this is a mechanical limitation or something another player can force then no, I would not.