Muling - Fair Game or Not?

[Endelyon]

It has recently been proposed by developers that the practice of muling/twinking could (and in fact should) be mechanically prevented.

I'd like to start a discussion here to get an idea of how the playerbase feels about this particular idea, as I'm on the fence about the subject myself, and think that overall the practice is a fairly harmless one overall.

I've included a poll for those who want to register their opinion without making a post about why, but it will be quite helpful if you could indeed post your thoughts here in the thread as well if you have the time and motivation to do so. Keep in mind that this poll is not a binding "vote" on the matter in any way shape or form, and is just to help me get a feel for where people stand on the core of the issue.

This possibility is still very much in the "theory crafting" stage currently, so there's no reason to get up in arms or to enter into prolonged debate/back-and-forth with one another. Every opinion is valid, and I'm curious to see what people think about this.

[cigarsmoke]

Muling is just fine, it's acceptable on a lot of other servers, let's get real. It is SO HARD for certain classes to get a foothold, when you're starting out at level one and everyone and their mother is epic level. Being a new player on this server -sucks-. Let people do what they want with their items. I mean if you want to have half the server flip out, go nuts, but this is a terrible idea.

[7threalm]

its a bad idea, and will lead to tattle telling, and players will circumvent it anyways. Be it duel accounts, or having a friend hold an item. All it will do will generate another headache for dm's.

and removing the item restrictions, as made it even more apparent,

hell a level 1 can run around with the 32 sr cloak and be immune to all magical spells. I don't know who made that call, but its hard to put the cat back in the bag. At least with level restrictions there was a better flow to cr rates in dungeons. And those that *made dungeons could plan for the level of gear

It was a bad call in my opinion from a game developer view. What we have now is level 1 running around in +4 gear, 32 sr (which was all prevented from the level restricts before)

[Planehopper]

The server is almost 10 years old. Some of us have been here nearly that long (off and on), and while we still may love the server and enjoy it.. we aren't as available as when this place kicked off. A lot changes In 10 years. Lol. In my case, play times have decreased significantly (one of the main reasons I forum mod - to remain a part of this community).

With reduced play times come reduced chances to level, to loot, to RP.

Only the server content continually gets harder as the equipment/power creep rises and the difficulty our current QC relies upon for viability includes the use of top-end equipment. Without the equipment, you're limited to who, what, and where you can play.

The combination of difficulty, equipment reliance, and non-muling would be too much, for me personally, to bear and still enjoy my time in game. I would surely sign off for the last time if i had to start every new character with 1000gp and a hope to remain viable.

Perhaps there are all sorts of various fixes that prevent the problems I would foresee, but what is lost in the end isn't worth it, imo.

[Valefort]

Muling/twinking by and large doesn't make sense IC wise, it also kills any diffficulty in the low levels as soon as you get +3 gear and decreases the need for gear overall since it can be shared between the characters. Is there any positive aspect to it ? With proper storage as we have now mules are not necessary anymore.

[7threalm]

level restrictions helped with that valefort, and can even be tweaked via the code, so instead of increasing creature strength, we could adjust the item level restricts

your looking for a mechicanl fix without any safeguard and relies on dm policing the system.

[Valefort]

It certainly helped yes ... now I see all those low CR areas that are played so little because everyone breezes through the low levels in a matter of hours

[cigarsmoke]

Valefort, are you kidding me? Not everyone friggin' plays bards and clerics and druids. Do you have any idea how hard it is to level a rogue? I'm still level 15. I don't breeze through jack. Some of us like, don't want to die every five seconds trying to get down the trade way to the FAI when we roll.

[BattleBee47]

I've only been playing on and off again for about a year.
Without the muling, I would have certainly given up and quit for good while trying to start over recently.
RP is fantastic, but being strong enough to level by yourself and not have to rely on other people's play time is a pretty good feeling.
Please keep it. It can help new players/returning players learn the game without overly stressing about dying over and over due to lackluster gear. Rage quitting is a real thing.

Hope this helps!

[cigarsmoke]

As an addendum: "No difficulty?" The GRIND IS EXCRUCIATING. RP XP is not enough. All the oldhats are epic level. Some people just grind to death for a week and get there - not all of us want to do that. The quest time limits suck. You want to make it even -harder- for people making new characters, RPing different concepts that isn't super OP to be a l33t pvper? God, even bards are hard to level at low levels. And some of you want to take muling away, lol.

[Aspect of Sorrow]

There are too many workarounds and false positive triggers that would render this moot. The response to muling for CR related contexts is adjusting the encounter.

[flipside43]

I think muling is fair game. If anything killed off the low level areas it's the RCR bot not the lack of item restrictions and muling. If people want to use the time they put into the game as an advantage on a new character, is that really such a horrible thing? It is quite easy to RPly justify getting that gear so lack of IC sense, to me, is a poor justification.

[ZStreeter]

It's incredibly difficult to police and time is better spent elsewhere imo.

But this is coming from someone who's remade/muled his main three times in the past week because of all these spell/feat changes that I'm unfamiliar with.

[7threalm]

There are too many workarounds and false positive triggers that would render this moot. The response to muling for CR related contexts is adjusting the encounter.

which is hours of work, unless someone can a script that modifies creatures states on the fly, and read on Enter (player stats) to generate an approriate cr

which would be harder with a party set up

[Calodan]

If we are going to restrict it I think the loot tables need serious re-consideration and a healthy bump that not one of the top dawgs in charge of BG are willing to make. Currently with the few chosen who still have grandfathered gear and the time it takes to gather any gear of any type it is fair game in my mind.

So if BG is willing to get rid of grandfathered gear and re-do the loot tables that allow for the creation of new PCs and gearing them far more easier then yeah I am all for it.