Muling - Fair Game or Not?

[cigarsmoke]

Why should the encounter be adjusted? You're all assuming people are muling epic level stuff - some of us AREN'T. Some of us just want our items on equally low level characters. I just helped a friend mule hte other day, he had some good stuff, but he mostly just wanted some middling things he had and some gold so he could just get started without the agony of this server's ridiculously slow progression. Encounters do not need to be adjusted.

[7threalm]

Talking about a dynamic adjustment - not a static one.

reads player gear states - sets cr based on that (but i just see players going naked into and area then requipment items)

Free level 10 rcr = no level 1
Item restrictions = epic gear at level 1
Muling = all +4 gear going to charater
No viable crafting sytem = incentive to mule items over, as epic quaulity items are expensive and hard to get

= easy mode

Those 3 things in combination have created a lack of need for low level content.

[cigarsmoke]

Again you are assuming people are muling that stuff. People that have been playing for TEN YEARS have. You're forgetting the large influx of new players. I assure you most of the server making new characters isn't getting +4 stuff from switching around some gear between a few alts. The exaggeration in this thread is silly.

[Aspect of Sorrow]

The dynamic adjustment based on what the NPC is fighting is the better response, muling aside. If not for the stats of the creature , but the valuation of the gear contributing to tiers of XP earnings.

[dedude]

Assume that this wouldn't add any work to the DM team. If it did we wouldn't even consider doing it. It will be mechanically enforced, or not implemented at all.

Also, keep in mind that if this was activated on the server, balancing of creatures/classes/items/etc would start taking the no-muling into account. If a rogue is too hard to level up compared to others, something should be done, regardless of muling, and the QC team is totally on top of that. (though pure rogue is notorious for being hard to solo with)

Consider how it would open up the economy, making trading of a much wider range of items viable. The game of building up a character from scratch is 50% getting xp to level up, and 50% finding the right gear.

[matelener]

I wouldn't mind baning muling but I can see it going in only in pair with a more rewarding loot system and some sort of crafting system. If you could get what your character specifically wants/needs in a reasonable timeframe (mainly it's the epic stuff I'm talking about), then muling would become simply obsolete.

P.S. I shudder thinking about playing a rogue from the 1000 gp point ^^

[chad878262]

What about the disguise mechanics and storage?
What about RCR to 'fix' a character?
What about 'selling' an item on KEMO Auction and immediately logging in to purchase it on a 2nd character?


I actually voted that I have no strong opinion, because with the epic stores in place there is no need to keep/cherish epic items as they are replaceable. Heck, it might even allow us to get some semblance of a normalized 'economy' going if goods couldn't be muled from one toon to the next. However, there are a lot of different ways that items might be muled, some even fully legitimate reasons and some borderline. The above are just a few examples that would need to be taken in to account/ruled on. For example, if we make a major change that allows for free RCR during a given timeframe, isn't a punishment to say that they can RCR their character, but can't keep all their gear?

As I said, I'm fine with whatever is decided, but I think it is more complex than has been discussed in the past.

[cigarsmoke]

I will grant that is a good idea Sorrow in general, and will attribute more benefit overall to the server, possibly even the crazy grind.


And dude, the economy is doing just fine. That is one thing as a low level I wouldn't complain about in the slightest. There's tons of Merchant RP, murderers for hire, auction house, people selling. There already IS a wide ranger of items available - just look at the forums of people selling stuff when the auction is full. Things are fine there.

[7threalm]

without a viable crafting system, the loot tables and epic gear are to hard to aquire loot, so unless the incentive to not mule is greater then other options, muling will still exist

[cigarsmoke]

P.S. I shudder thinking about playing a rogue from the 1000 gp point ^^

[Valefort]

cigarsmoke, experience plays a large role on the perceived difficulty, I leveled a rogue to 8 last week (and really, in 2 days) without any kind of issue, even on the first levels where I started with nothing but 1000 gold. After level 4 I muled some +3 items and this was ofc not challenging at all anymore.

On other classes like wizard gear is really a non-issue as far as leveling goes : you don't need any, at least I didn't and I'm not the best wizard player around.

Anyway if I understand well the main argument is that muling is good because it makes leveling easier, everyone agrees on that last fact but I hope you can understand that some think it's a bad thing that leveling is fast

[cigarsmoke]

....Leveling is -not fast- if you actually want to PLAY THE GAME and not mindlessly grind for hours, and hours, and hours upon end. Some of us have lives and crap to do and are here for creative writing. BG has had the most excruciating grind out of all the nwn2 servers that ever was or ever will be.

[Valefort]

It's false, other servers have had much slower leveling. Also be aware that the leveling is much faster than it used to be, and for some people it is atrociously fast.

[cigarsmoke]

The only other server that was once as popular as BG with just as slow leveling was DB. It's dead as you can see for that reason and many others - like no muling. The only other server I can think of with retarded slow leveling was Silverlining's - and barely anyone plays it for good reason. It's not satisfying to stay at level 9 for a year.

[Planehopper]

The low level areas are empty, and new players quit, for many reasons, most of which have nothing to do with this. Most that I have spoken with through a sustained effort to party with and introduce new players here are more concerned with the epic vets sitting on their figurative cloud thrones and RPing only amongst themselves and the resulting perceived need to grind through low level content. The perception that things dont start til 20 is cemented by those that don't engage the lower level characters.

I leveled from 22 through most of 24 now without relying on any epic level areas. I've ran quests with low level parties and relied upon RP XP. One DM XP reward of about 1000xp I think. Lots of 1-3xp kills, but a lot more 30-45xp RP ticks and quest rewards. The low level areas are empty by choice of high level players more than any other reason.

Level restrictions helped slow the pace, but inclusion and external focus would likely fix much of what I've been told.

As far as the worry with grandfathered gear, to add some perspective there were no chests for the first year or so that I played here. Once they were included the highest chest loot was +2, +3 was DM reward only. There were immunity items that were all stripped out (with exception of spell immunity) about 6 years ago at least. +4 stuff is actually fairly new, even newer than that. There were some cool items around that persist, but most have fallen away or have been dispersed into the economy by now. Most of us old vets are lucky to have +4 things.

The hassle to prevent it is not worth the perceived benefit, not when we could help the same "problems" with less invasive/confrontational ways.