Muling - Fair Game or Not?

[AC81]

I don't think there is any great need to prevent muling, however I'd support it if that's what the playing and admin group think is needed.
One question, what is the goal behind preventing muling? Why would we do this? Do we think it will suddenly make the game more realistic or something? More fair to newer players? What is the end goal?

[Face]

I wont lie this would make me cry as i like to play around with perma death but having to lose all mah phat hell lewds and having to spend 2 years getting gold agen to buy it all....Yea thats to hardcore for me.

So my toons would live for ever should this make it in...Its painfull enough to have to run around for 4 months grinding and question to get that new toon to level 24-25.

[Deathgrowl]

Actually, think of it a different way:

If you want to encourage people putting more consequence on their characters, disallowing muling is going to counter that encouragement. If a character dies and muling isn't allowed, people are less likely to want their character and all their equipment to just vanish.

So disallowing muling is simply going to make people even less willing to accept permadeath consequences.

[Face]

Actually, think of it a different way:

If you want to encourage people putting more consequence on their characters, disallowing muling is going to counter that encouragement. If a character dies and muling isn't allowed, people are less likely to want their character and all their equipment to just vanish.

So disallowing muling is simply going to make people even less willing to accept permadeath consequences.

Nailed it...It seems one of the big reasons why people fear perma death so mutch cous its a Fing mission to get xp past level 21.

[dedude]

I think you're going to drive away players more if you prevent muling. We allow RCR, and so we should allow muling.

Two different things. RCR into the same name and you retain all your items, just like today.

If you want stuff to make "IC sense" and that is your baseline argumentation, there are many, many other things to change before messing around with muling.

Main argument against muling is economy. Second argument is leveling the playing field for new characters. New players don't have access to the awesome gear old players can outfit their new character with. How do we balance level 8 content to be challenging for both a new player with 20 AC, and an old player with 40 AC and an epic scythe? Do you think a new player would enjoy grouping with some veterans that just trash everything in seconds?

[Face]

I think you're going to drive away players more if you prevent muling. We allow RCR, and so we should allow muling.

Two different things. RCR into the same name and you retain all your items, just like today.

If you want stuff to make "IC sense" and that is your baseline argumentation, there are many, many other things to change before messing around with muling.

Main argument against muling is economy. Second argument is leveling the playing field for new characters. New players don't have access to the awesome gear old players can outfit their new character with. How do we balance level 8 content to be challenging for both a new player with 20 AC, and an old player with 40 AC and an epic scythe? Do you think a new player would enjoy grouping with some veterans that just trash everything in seconds?

If you want balance start with a purge on grant fatherd items.

[Dagesh]

Before preventing mules, what needs to be considered first is muling and its effects, both good and bad. From there consider the effects of removing it, good and bad. After all of that, compare and consider which provides the greatest emphasis of the server. Does the change (or retaining) fit the ethos of the server?

We can run anecdotally all day saying this or that is too easy or too hard, too RP heavy or too RP lite. If we're making a change of something for which we don't have all the information, we're the blind leading the blind.

[Nyeleni]

What will happen? Some gifts are given to other chars who then gift it away to the right char etc. You cannot enforce it.

Whatever other arguments against it might be it's a plain fact that it can be enforced.
If char gives item to another char item still has on it ID of original account. The moment item gets to hand of another char from the same account it disappears. They have such system on Aeris. Sure it generates like 2 cases per year where items go from one char to another by normal means but it effectively blocks muling.

This is such BS. Why would you even have such a system? It makes trading unreliable at best.

[Deathgrowl]

I think you're going to drive away players more if you prevent muling. We allow RCR, and so we should allow muling.

Two different things. RCR into the same name and you retain all your items, just like today.

Are you even aware of what "RCR" stands for?

It's designed for making new characters. Retired Character Refund. That's what I meant.

[Theodore01]

Second argument is leveling the playing field for new characters. New players don't have access to the awesome gear old players can outfit their new character with. How do we balance level 8 content to be challenging for both a new player with 20 AC, and an old player with 40 AC and an epic scythe? Do you think a new player would enjoy grouping with some veterans that just trash everything in seconds?

That was where the item restrictions came in - removing them made it much worse. Fully equipped lv1 chararcters bragging with ACs over 40

[Mork]

Main argument against muling is economy. Second argument is leveling the playing field for new characters. New players don't have access to the awesome gear old players can outfit their new character with.

I'd like to add improvement of trade RP, and sense for having merchant chars.

[dedude]

I think you're going to drive away players more if you prevent muling. We allow RCR, and so we should allow muling.

Two different things. RCR into the same name and you retain all your items, just like today.

Are you even aware of what "RCR" stands for?

It's designed for making new characters. Retired Character Refund. That's what I meant.

Heh sorry Deathgrowl, I thought you meant for re-rolling the same character. Not sure I understand why allowing RCR means we should allow muling, but if you want to remove RCR I will back you up.

[V'rass]

Dont support banning muling... just another attempt by some to punish others. And yeah the rate at which you gain lvs is atrocious though that is after lv 20, 1-20 goes decently if you quest and grind daily though some people cant so there is another issue...

If muling does get banned its not going to effect me as i will simply not make any new characters and keep Exo around forever. Simple and effective solution.

[Deathgrowl]

Heh sorry Deathgrowl, I thought you meant for re-rolling the same character. Not sure I understand why allowing RCR means we should allow muling, but if you want to remove RCR I will back you up.

I don't. I wouldn't mind it if the server was a heavy RP server with this many people.

But I'd rather keep this many people and have the server feel alive, than make it a heavier RP server. That's what it boils down to for me.

[AC81]

If you want balance start with a purge on grant fatherd items.

Grandfathered items don't do anything to upset balance in the grand scheme of things. There are so few around in the hands of even fewer - I'd be stunned if they had any impact on the server at all. The gear you can now BUY far exceeds the quality of most grandfathered items. I'd say the bigger impact when it comes to seeing grandfathered items in use is that the player using them has probably been on this server since '09-'10 so they know the server back-to-front and has probably tailored his character for use with the items. The extra bonuses you sometimes get with GF items are largely irrelevant in comparison to store bought items these days. There really shouldn't be any complaining about access to high epic items now, every man and his dog can have +4 gear with extras - when I first started there were no chests and +3 items were DM rewards. Things are easier now, wouldn't you agree?