Muling - Fair Game or Not?

[aaron22]

That's not entirely unlike how it happened...

edited out as well as it is similar to the other one that was flagged

[Maximvs]

People coming to and leaving this server has nothing to do with muling being allowed or not. It's related to each player's expectations from a server and what is offered to them. Of course, a server will get bigger if another one closes. It's the case for all remaining servers ( lol ). When a new server pops up, all other servers loses a bit of their player base, because they want to try this new server. It's normal.

Besides, people in favor of muling are most likely either power hungry or tired of long arse grindings. Power hungry people can leave for Realm of Trinity if they want to ( a server with +10 gear and it already exists so I suppose there's a reason these players haven't left yet ) and those really tired of long arse grindings are most likely roleplay focused ( I mean, this game offers two things, after all ; grinding and roleplay ). Maybe there are stuff from other, more RP oriented servers that puts them off ( extreme sexuality or non faerun worlds comes to mind ).

I'm not sure what this ToA rambling is all about. ToA allowed muling not because it was a better design choice from a world's perspective, it was simply a simpler choice for it's staff so they would not have to police the playerbase. Their decision was better for them, the staff, not necessarily for the players.

[Your best friend]

As an addendum: "No difficulty?" The GRIND IS EXCRUCIATING. RP XP is not enough. All the oldhats are epic level. Some people just grind to death for a week and get there - not all of us want to do that. The quest time limits suck. You want to make it even -harder- for people making new characters, RPing different concepts that isn't super OP to be a l33t pvper? God, even bards are hard to level at low levels. And some of you want to take muling away, lol.

Cigar pretty much summarized my thoughts already. For the record, I've been playing since 2012 and I still don't have a level 30 character -- let alone a single one at level 20! If you're going to make muling mechanically impossible, you all really need to make the grind less miserable first.

[Akroma666]

Hidden: show

And you all wonder why whenever someone makes a new server people leave here in droves. This is such a non-issue and affects hardly anyone else, the economy is fine, and this is such an overblown exaggerated drama bomb that it's not even worth considering.

What an absolute joke. I've said my peace - but watching it continue is just depressing. I for one will be MANY of the others that leave.

Who gave any indication that anyone was "wondering" this? Our server population and activity have been higher in the last year than they have since the very early days of the module, but we're not going to base our decisions on whether or not it might cause someone to go play on another server. I can respect the fact that you prefer the way ToA was run, but this is not ToA and I have no desire to make it such. If many people leave over it? I'm okay with that, too.

Our players are not expendable, but from a logistics standpoint there have been many times where I wished our population was much, much smaller than it is. This isn't even some kind of humble-brag, the more players we have things become harder and harder from an administration standpoint (and it becomes harder and harder to make anyone happy!).

Not that I would choose to outlaw muling for the specific intent to shrink the playerbase, either. I don't know what all the fuss is about, this is a question one of our developers brought to me and he was curious about how the players would feel if we moved to a "no muling" policy. This line of discussion is simply the natural result of that. Just because we're taking a poll doesn't mean we're doing it because we've already decided we want to turn it off. You need to relax and take a step back from this, as I can clearly see the thought has frustrated you.

I'm still interested to hear more of everyones' thoughts, this thread is still less than 24 hours old. Just keep things civil and remember that this is all still academic at this stage.

Numbers speak for themselves.

[aaron22]

RP xp is not enough. enough for what? what are you actually doing that should lift your character to higher combat levels? i am unsure what the xp/hr you can get from RP but i would guess at around 800. (40xp every 3 mins). do that for 4.5 hours each day 5 days a week. it will take 1 year to take a 0ECL to 20. just with RP?? that sounds right? i think RP xp is just fine where it is. maybe teetering high. think there is some sort of limit to getting that much RP xp, but not sure as if i have done it i wouldnt have noticed.

[Velaris]

I started a new toon for a rp concept about three weeks ago. I didn't do any serious twinking or anything to him, but regular party grinding and questing, with lots of rp during and in between outings. Rp xp is amazing here, and certainly encourages the social aspect during even a grind outing.

Super easy, I'm at level 20 in two weeks. I work 2 jobs, but put my time to constructive use when here. I don't think I have any +4 gear on any of my toons, aside from weapons, which are ridiculously easy to get.

Muling can stay or go, as Steve said, since with the disguise toggle / permanent storage, it no longer has an impact. you don't have to stand in the nexus, or rely on barter not closing, or the mysterious disappearing campfire problem.

Item restrictions? Well, that's a bit trickier, should you be able to use any sword you find? Sure, as a normal sword, but perhaps the special bonuses on them might not kick in unless you meet a level restriction. Getting the full benefit of your experience...
I didn't mind the level restrictions when I started playing, long time ago. Seemed normal, and gave me something to look forward to.

Yes, players might leave if things change, that's normal, and good for the server. I'd say the people that stay, and are willing to accept and promote change, are the ones that really matter. If you want a different experience or have different expectations, are feeling particularly inflexible to changes, this server might not be for you. Things change here a lot, and often, and after things settle, there's always good to be found in the changes, if you're willing to look and work with it.

The world changes, and our characters must change and adapt to it. That's the realism aspect. (can't wait for the time of troubles, roaming dms playing vengeful/benevolent gods, and spell plague!)

[cosmic ray]

What a strange question to ask of the community after disabling the level restriction on items.

I personally consider the two mutually exclusive. Removing the item level restrictions wasn't done specifically so the community would be able to more easily pimp out their alts (though we were well aware that it was a possibility and discussed last year at that time whether or not we thought the game might ever move to a "No Muling" policy one day), it was done so that players would be able to utilize gear that they purchased, traded for, or were gifted the moment they received it instead of having to watch it sit in their inventory with a red hue for 10 or 20 levels.

That being said, the question was raised by developers so it's only natural for the administration to try to get a general sense of how exactly the community feels as a whole.

Well, if you guys change anything, I'd rather you bring back the level retriction than ban muling. :/

[Vermilion]

The world changes, and our characters must change and adapt to it. That's the realism aspect. (can't wait for the time of troubles, roaming dms playing vengeful/benevolent gods, and spell plague!)

Nice post, Velaris! Pretty much my thought too, though I'm far too much of an indecisive butterfly to stick to levelling a character to 30 without distracting myself with another concept.

I will say, however, that the Time of Troubles would be an ideal opportunity to invoke Steve's total server reset

(If that was happening, I have some cool ideas on overhauling the Background Feats system.)

[SBlack]

Make no mistake I am against twinking, but when you look at other servers that had anti-twinking policies they didn't really work. I think Luna had he right idea here, he was pretty wise. While it can be enforced I have my doubts that it will be enforced across the board fairly. And I really don't think anyone really wants to enforce the rule save for folk they don't really care for and that is a can of worms.

[Xanfyrst]

Btw is there some instructions anywhere on how to use that new storage system? Can't seem to find anything.

[Hoihe]

Btw is there some instructions anywhere on how to use that new storage system? Can't seem to find anything.

Go to an appropriate NPC and follow the conversation!

Appropriate NPCs:

SCCE rep
The guy in BG farmlands that sells newbie gear
the dwarf in FAI
Seeker Claire in CK

are the ones that I can list off on the surface easily reachable.

[aaron22]

biscuts in soubar between the mind flayers and wearwolves and kobolds LOL

[aaron22]

mules being replaced by the storage system has put many hard working beasts of burden out of work. just 5 gold a day can feed oneof these now jobless refugees. go to feedthemules.com and sponsor your own starving mule. we will send you a picture and a post card of the one you are sponsored. would you go to feedthemules.com and save a hungry minotaur-horned orc today...

all proceeds go to my account so i can buy stuff for my characters to torment you with.

with all the mules being replaced, the orc population has gone down 80%.

#mulelivesmatter
#feedthemules

[amber91]

I don't know what all the fuss is about, this is a question one of our developers brought to me and he was curious about how the players would feel if we moved to a "no muling" policy.

I'm confused. What does "no muling" policy look like in execution? Can someone give an example?

My initial impression is:
1) No item transfers between characters.
2) Characters aren't allowed to be used for "storage" only. So no level 1 with lots of epic items.

There's already a nice Persistent Storage in place... What do we gain and what do we lose by the "no muling" policy exactly? Isn't the Persistent Storage pretty much the non-character-based-muling-game-mechanic? So is that going away too?

I'm so confused by this suggestion. What is the root of the problem the developer is trying to address?

1) Is it a twinking issue?
2) Is it a character/item overpopulation issue?
3) is it an RP/immersion issue?

What is the problem exactly? And what does the "solution" look like?

[chad878262]

It means you can't transfer items between your own characters. In execution I believe when one of your characters acquires an item it get's "tagged" to that character. If you attempt to acquire said item with one of your other characters the item disappears. In addition, I imagine when trading an item to another player the item gets another tag for that character. Assuming it could be done the idea is that items acquired on a specific character can only be used by that character or traded to another players character. Essentially you can't equip your "RP" character(s) by loot grinding with your epic Favored Soul, or whatever. Additionally, if you have a dozen different characters and you happen to find an Uber Greatsword of Awesomeness with your Rogue, you can't transfer it over to your Barbarian. However, nothing would stop a player from finding another player willing to accept a trade of the greatsword from the Rogue, while trading a different Uber Greatsword of Awesomeness to the players Barbarian.

In practice my opinion is it would have roughly equal amount of positives and negatives both IC and OOC related.