Out of curiousity: BGTSCC and the difficulty level

[Winterborne]

Long-time on-and-off player here, who is not anywhere near an Expert at NWN building, and I just want to say that VillageGreenWitch's original post feels pretty spot-on to me (playing a dex-based stealth melee character with no spellcasting and rather late acquisition of HiPS). The server was VERY hard early on, leaving me to be grouping for most of my hunting time.

Lately, my build has come into its own, and I have enough skill points (18 int + decent number of rogue levels) to be useful for non-combat stuff as well, but boy is it rough early on if you are just using basic shop stuff (and don't know where the more out of the way, specialized shops are) and don't have buffs. Certain weapon types are much easier to find than others it feels, too, at least at higher end.

I think part of this may come down to just the luck of the draw with the random loot generation as well. I very rarely find something that's desirable in any way (I think my favorite failboat item was a weapon that had +2 int and -2 int on the same item). I wish there was an easier way to find or target finding things that were useful *to you*, as right now, making money without being able to mule or having a higher-level character that can help you out seems to mostly be finding stuff, selling it to Maltz for coin, and saving up for something. If I'm doing it wrong, I'd love to hear what I should be doing instead!

I don't mind the difficulty at all, but I've tried a few times to get friends of mine to play here, and they had such a rough time soloing at earlier levels (unfamiliarity with NWN building + not knowing many people) that it's hard to convince them to come back. The argument of "You'd have a real easy time grouping up though!" always gets a "I don't want to have to rely on other people if none are around at the time I'm logging in". I don't want to have to say "Here, just find a build on the forum/nwn2db!" because 90% of the fun of roleplaying is creating a character and their concept and running with it, evolving it based on RP. As opposed to planning a build from 1-30 before you even roll the character.

I love the server and I want others to love it the same as I do!

[ZStreeter]

What's even more difficult is getting your average BG adventurer to roleplay for more than two minutes.

I've had my PC at the campfire for an hour and received 400 XP.

Occasionally getting 40-55 XP is hardly enough incentive for someone, especially a below level 20 character, to spend time socializing with other people.

Sure, we might have 70 people on the server. But 60 of them are rightly making the most of their time by sprinting around dungeons and ignoring every low-level character they pass.

[chad878262]

There are ways to RP other than by the campfire. I personally can't stand campfire RP unless there is an in character reason my adventurer would be sitting around discussing the upcoming half-orc bake sale. I've seen many players group up for an adventure and take everything slow, letting the rogue detect and remove traps, allowing the cleric to do all the healing, etc. If you take the time to find a group of players you enjoy spending time with there can be adventure over and above grinding and there can be RP away from the friendly confines of a campfire. It is great fun to take a group of 3-5 friends through an appropriately challenging dungeon, utilizing strategy, having spell casters actually be spell casters, rogues using tactics besides HiPS spamming to deliver sneak attacks, etc... It can almost feel like sitting around a table playing PnP...but with graphics!

[ZStreeter]

Slowly circling [familiar dungeon/area] sounds even more excruciating to me.

[chad878262]

Slowly circling [familiar dungeon/area] sounds even more excruciating to me.

There are several new(ish) dungeon areas of low CR in and around Soubar as well as along the Chiontar river from the wyrm's crossing bridge. Everyone has different things they enjoy about the game though.

[Fionn]

Sure, we might have 70 people on the server. But 60 of them are rightly making the most of their time by sprinting around dungeons and ignoring every low-level character they pass.

I've come across few toons that fail to stop and RP when I stumble across them in the wild. It's the campfire where it's all +++ posturing and *terribly mysterious backstory*. I opened the wrong door on a party of very tan elves yesterday and had a 10 minute IC convo before getting some rather nice parting buffs and slinking away with my ++ arse

No, this isn't DDO, and you can't just jump on a PUG, but I've had little issue finding at least one person to adventure / RP with if I have a little patience (most days).

[Hoihe]

Sure, we might have 70 people on the server. But 60 of them are rightly making the most of their time by sprinting around dungeons and ignoring every low-level character they pass.

I've come across few toons that fail to stop and RP when I stumble across them in the wild. It's the campfire where it's all +++ posturing and *terribly mysterious backstory*. I opened the wrong door on a party of very tan elves yesterday and had a 10 minute IC convo before getting some rather nice parting buffs and slinking away with my ++ arse

No, this isn't DDO, and you can't just jump on a PUG, but I've had little issue finding at least one person to adventure / RP with if I have a little patience (most days).

Having ++ as your scry level has to be the worst. Especially if it's in the upper end of the spectrum. Usually when you party with people to run a dungeon, you'll end up getting 5 XP due to them being either too low level or too high. There's never enough level 17/18s.

[amber91]

DISCLAIMER: This is not meant to start any "war", I am also not attempting to complain, not at all. I enjoy playing here.
I am just somewhat baffled at the quotes below and would like to receive some general feedback from the playerbase.

In my several years of player experience here I always had two impressions:

(1) BGTSCC is - due to being based on D&D - caster-centered. You're not a caster? You're second class. It's not even something that BGTSCC is deliberately trying to achieve - it's just the way D&D is working.

(2) BGTSCC tries to create a gravely dangerous environment that can be survived by the strongest and best-equipped only.

To VillageGreenWitch -- you express what's on my mind in your post but with far more eloquence and grace and not start flame wars
I believe you already knew the answer to your questions, already knowing that your first two impressions are true.

The only thing that you may be missing, which is something I didn't realize I was missing before too until "I got it", is "perspective".

Long-story short: When I hit 30 with my first character, it was like I experienced a mid-life crisis. With the help of a guild and friends, I have all the equipment I want, all the money I need for consumables here and there, have probably met and beaten all the "end-game" bosses (except White Dragon), been to the Hells Shop, etc. And the straw that broke the camel's back was defeating my character's "arch-nemesis" in PvP... after accomplishing my player/character "game goals", I found myself at the edge of a cliff of boredom.

PvE is not really rewarding anymore when you have everything you want. PvP can still be a challenge, but all too often just too lopsided and predictable; the only thing that keeps PvP fun for me now is the context/RP that surrounds it.

So, now that I've reached this point as a gamer, I find myself better able to appreciate the perspective people like Valefort and AC81 have, saying the server is VERY EASY. So, it seems easy to say that in retrospect from the top of the hill, now that I know more about the server, the content, the population, the mechanics, and the items that are available. I couldn't see that perspective from anywhere below the top of the hill, though.


So I guess the bottom line of what I'm trying to say is this:

People like Valefort and AC81 are right from their perspective. The game is easy to them with their knowledge. Their challenge is boredom.

People like you and I, and a lot of new/young players are also right from our perspective that the server PvE content is a challenge until we figure out "how to beat it". Which, you already know, as you said, can be done "by the strongest and best-equipped" or by being with those people.

There will always be a gap between the two perspectives because they come from different places, and they are going to different places. You may be making your way to the top of the hill; they've already been there and are making their self-imposed challenges on their way elsewhere.

If you are like me, don't make the same mistake of falling for the lie that with power comes fun, or that you need as much power to have as much fun as the next player.

It's like that Sheryl Crow song says, "it's not having what you want; it's wanting what you've got..." In the end, this game is what you make of it, like Valefort once told me :p

That's only yours to fix, can't change what is inside your mind