Tips for a pair of Dwarven Brothers.

[Stormforge1]

I like the 24/3/3. Now just need to decide how much I want to put into Wisdom for spells. My current build is Str-14, Dex-16, Con-16, Int-14, Wis-12, Cha-6. Restricted to light armor so looking at a Finesse build still.

[chad878262]

Best armor for a ranger is Mithral Chainmail, which gives AC 6 with max DEX bonus of 4. Thus you want DEX - 14 (18 with Cats Grace) / WIS 14 (it sucks to rely on items for spells and rangers have a solid spell list) / CON 15 (even though Rangers get Bears Endurance if it wears off when you don't have adequate HP it can kill you, so better to have odd CON and STR and wear a belt that gives +3 to both). INT is up to you, but I agree 14 is best because skill points are like crack. STR is where you want to max it out, but make sure to end on an odd level.

So for example you could change your skill points to be:

STR - 15
DEX - 14
CON - 15
INT - 14
WIS - 14
CHA - 6

7 stat increases go in to STR bringing it up to 22, then you take either 1 or 3 Great STR feats to end at 23 or 25. The Belt of Growth will give you a final STR of 26 or 28 and CON of 18.

You don't want Finesse. One of the benefits of Ranger is being able to mostly focus on STR while getting PTWF or free. Take the Oversized Two Weapon Fighting feat and you can dual wield Dwarven War Axes to your hearts content!

[aaron22]

Rangers get Bears Endurance if it wears off when you don't have adequate HP it can kill you

if you haven't made it through a super tough fight by the skin of your teeth and died from resting.... you haven't lived

[aaron22]

BTW chad. you had me all F'ed up there for a minute with...

It's still an option since you gain the 2d6 damage when you can use HiPS from Bodyguard3 along with 10% movement speed boost

i thought you were saying that BdyGd gives hips at 3. I was like

was doing all sorts of look-ups and checking every site for info on this change. reconsidering EVERY build i have to now take BdyGd3. until i figured out what it was you were saying.

[chad878262]

sorry for the confusion Aaron.

To be clear, my meaning was of course that when you can use Ranger HiPS (outdoors) or the extension of Cave Stalker HiPS (Natural caverns) then you gain 2d6 damage from sneak dice thanks to Bodyguard 3.

[aaron22]

yea... figured it out, but for a minute there... scrambling

BdyGd doesnt even have H/MS class skill. LOL how could it have HiPS!!!!

[Stormforge1]

Ok had 1 point left over for the above attributes for the Scout build. I put it into Con bringing it up to 16. (Dwarf Con +2, so cost of 1 up until 16 at creation)

Str-15
Dex-14
Con-16
Int-14
Wis-14
Cha-6

@chad878262 Also in your original recommendations you mentioned.
Ranger 21/Shadowdancer 3/Cavestalker 6.

And above you mentioned, and this is what I am currently going with.
Ranger 24/Divine Seeker 3/Cavestalker 3.

Would it be worth it to bring Cavestalker to 6 for gaseous form, or would 3 more epic levels of Ranger be better? i.e.
Ranger 21/Divine Seeker 3/Cavestalker 6


While I'm at it I would like to ask about opinions on a possible 3rd character. I was also interested in a Cleric or possibly a Favored Soul build (FS would most likely only be for self/party buff and healing). Sadly this is where I run into trouble with Shield Dwarves. The Charisma modifier kinda eats up attribute points if I wanted to turn undead or for the FS spell levels as a whole. Any thoughts on making either work? Not sure if any spells rely on Cha for DC or what not. Would a cleric with lesser turning ability be worth it?

Was looking at the following Deities. Leaning towards Marthammor Duin for RP reasons and these domains, Earth (Toughness feat, Stoneskin, Energy Immunity) and Luck (Luck of Heroes feat, Freedom of Movement, Greater Spell Mantle).


Clangeddin (Battleaxe) Good, Law, Strength, War

Dugmaren Brightmantle (Short Sword, unlikely for FS) Chaos, Good, Knowledge, Protection

Dumathoin (Warmace, possible FS?)/Moradin (Warhammer) Both are Earth, Good, Law, Protection

Gorm Gulthyn (Dwarven Waraxe, Guess this would be ideal for FS paired with a shield) Good, Law, Protection, War

Haela Brightaxe (Greatsword, possible FS?) Chaos, Good, Luck, War

Marthammor Duin (Morningstar) Earth, Good, Luck, Protection, Travel

[CrimsonMist]

Are you going to be playing all these characters simultaneously ?

If you have someone else to play alongside a party of dwarven siblings is a fantastic idea. I just worry that if you're playing all three you'll probably end up dropping two of them once you find a char you really gel with.

[aaron22]

if your new to the game, playing alot of characters is kind of a good thing. i did (do) that and it worked really well for me. your presence in the world will suffer and it will take 3 or 4 times as long to be recognized, but it allows you to learn through many forms and find the one you love.

have fun.

dont be mad when my orc eats you. its just RP

[Stormforge1]

I be startin a new Dwarven Clan. Tha Stormforge Clan we be. Bwhahahaha!

It is more a preference for different play styles depending on my mood. That and I do not mind being a "Johnny on the spot" for what is needed at the time for a party. My Scout is 10, the Battlerager 9 as I try to keep them somewhat close in levels for that purpose. Just happens to be that is the limit for me though as that is my 3 preferred class types.

If I could get the other 2 toons to follow me around and yell out certain things under specific conditions that would be great too.

Only trouble I really see is keeping track of who has and has not met who. Have already had 2 other players confuse my current character for the other.

[aaron22]

make the cleric. the FvS will be less effective with all those cha penalties. you will put too many points into it to meet some quality minimums.

from a PwrBld stand point str domain is the best you have available with earth (close second), luck, and war domain coming in after that. build your cleric and you can dump cha but know that you just wont be a good undead turner. there is worse things to not be good at. pump up wis and you will be good. put the rest of your points in str, con, then int. can cast in FP so dex can be set at 12 so if you find MFP you can cats or have +4 to get full advantage or can just not worry about MFP and set your dex at 9/10 so you have a +3/+2 item putting your dex at 12. of course you can leave it at 8 and rely on cats to get your dex to 12, but if you get dispelled you will lose two ac.

[Stormforge1]

Ok that is pretty much what I was thinking, just was not sure about Turning Undead with the 3.5 addition to Cha for it. Used to 2nd Edition BG 1 & 2/Icewind Dale EE's. Especially not familiar with the Mithral armors.

Any prc classes to consider? I was looking at Hierophant, Hospitaler, and Warpriest. Though the last 2 only gains a new spellcasting level every other. Also what would be better Luck of Heroes (if not taking Luck domain) or Spellcasting Prodigy at first level? I was leaning towards Spellcasting Prodigy.

Is there a cleric build guide for playing a buffer, healer, crowd control, offensive spellcaster, etc?

[aaron22]

try here.
viewtopic.php?f=149&t=51748

[CrimsonMist]

You may also find this info useful if you're looking into a caster cleric.

I have heard some support for a 10Cl/10Heir/10Hosp build.
I'm curious as to what the 10 Hosp actually gains on a Caster build.

It's actually quite simple:

Cleric30 is 30 caster levels, obviously. Because of going into epic levels with cleric, you get extra bonus feats, and thus more feats to fill up with Greater Wisdom. You can get 35 base wisdom on a +2 wisdom race this way. Which makes for a decent DC cleric.

Cleric20/hierophant10 gets 32 caster levels, provided you pick two spell power as the hierophant levels. This loses the epic bonus feats, however, so your wisdom will be a bit lower. You get essentially the same DCs because of the increased CL.

Cleric10/hierophant10/Hospitaler10 is great because with hospitaler being 6/10 caster levels, practiced spellcaster counters it. Hospitaler also gets 3 bonus feats. Two of those can be taken in epic levels, and can be used for wisdom feats. This means you can get 32 casterlevel and a base wisdom of 34 with a +2 wisdom race.

Does that explain it well enough?

[Stormforge1]

Thank you very much. Will look into that a bit later. Getting my chat macros for warcries, greetings, sayings, and whatnot set up on my current 2 characters. And no worries, not trying to be the same dwarf just with different classes.