Is Sorcerer actually a very weak class?

[Flights of Fantasy]

This is one of my favorite classes and I used to think it was one of the best spell caster classes available. Even in RP I've seen people react in almost aw when talking about "natural spell casters". And yeah, as far as RP goes, being able to cast spells without any need for study or preparation is an amazing feat. But when I look at the actual mechanics of the class, I find myself realizing that Sorcerers aren't that great. Let me explain with a few points.

1. Almost no reason to be a pure Sorcerer

Over the years, I've heard a lot of complaints about cheesy Sorcerer builds. In particular, there's the "dreaded" Paladin Sorcerer. However, there is no reason for a Sorcerer to avoid multi-classing because there's nothing to encourage him to stay a pure sorcerer. The only thing a pure Sorcerer gets is the same 3 extra epic feats that every pure base class gets and a level 30... familiar. Sorcerers don't receive any bonus spell feats, weapon progressions, spiritual powers, or damage resistance. And they're even stuck with low BAB progression throughout their career. To put it bluntly, no sorcerer should ever be mocked for multi-classing with any class or PrC they can.

2. Compared to the other "Natural" Spell Casters

By this I mean Favored Souls, Spirit Shamans, & Warlocks. As already mentioned in the prior point, these classes all get some amazing class feats. They also have medium BAB progression and they can select more spells to use (Not spell uses.) for every spell level save the Warlock. But while the Warlock may only have three "spells" for each of his four levels, he has an infinite use of those spells. All of these classes come with some amazing benefits for staying pure. If anything, it's actually difficult to multi-class with them because you have to decide what you're willing to give up.

3. Even multi-classing is difficult

Since a sorcerer has every reason to multi-class, that means every level he remains a sorcerer is a lost opportunity for more power. This means the ideal "sorcerer" will want to have the absolute minimum of only 5 levels of sorcerer with the remaining 25 all going to PrCs. (The other option is to sacrifice some caster levels by taking at least 3 levels (BG Req) in another base class. That also means you'll never have 25 levels in an arcane PrC because every character is limited to taking only 4 different classes/PrCs.) Unfortunately, as you will soon see, a sorcerer interested in the majority of the arcane PrCs will have to wait until after level 6.

A sorcerer's arcane level progresses one level behind that of the wizard. A wizard will reach level 3 spells at 5 while a sorcerer won't reach the same level until 6. (FYI, the same goes for FS & SS in comparison to Clerics & Druids.) Those that have planned wizard/sorcerer builds before know that's an important number because it's a requirement for several (powerful) arcane PrCs: ASoC, Arcane Trickster, Blood Magus, Eldritch Knight, Harper Mage, Pale Master, Red Wizard (N/A), Shadow Adept, & Techsmith (4th). There are only two arcane PrCs a sorcerer can take after level 5: Frost Mage, & Silverstar (Must be Human/Halfling & worship Selune). All other arcane PrCs have BAB, skill, feat, and/or spell level requirements that make them impossible to take any sooner. This means unless a sorcerer wants to be made of ice or a human/hin that worships Selune, he always has to give up something be it the last level of a PrC or his caster level to reach his maximum potential.

So what's everyone else's thoughts. Am I missing something in my analysis? Do you think Sorcerers (not Wizards) need some improvements & something to give them a reason to be pure sorcerers?

[cosmic ray]

Sorcerer is garbage compared to wizard, both in flavor and as a class! Wizards represent.

[illithid]

take a look at spells per day!

[chad878262]

Sorc/ASoC/Frost Mage makes a great blaster, but blasters are pretty weak in any case. In general are they weaker than Wizards? Sure, but are they really a 'weak' class? With or without PRC's they are still full casters with powerful spells, I would hardly call them weak. In PvE and PvP they have the benefit of more casts / day to rebuff or DC their enemies with so there are benefits. We've discussed them in QC before and the issue is that they really are already a powerful class so it's tough to justify improving them.

[Nachti]

I'd always pick a sorcerer over a wizard simply because iam lazy and a sorcerer spellbook is easier to sort .

[Calodan]

Well until the Evasion fix Sorcerers were the true battlemages of the server. Armored casters were a thing for Sorc but now with the evasion fix it is a tad bit more interesting.

[Lockonnow]

That is why the sorcerer is a rare class how many npc in FR game was sorcerer/ sorceress npc one Qara

[Flights of Fantasy]

If you mean the cohorts, yes, there was just about one for every base class. (Though Khelgar started as a fighter and had the option to become a monk later.) And I personally don't think an extra 2 spells each spell level a day is that great of a thing but that's just my opinion.

Either way, I can see no one has yet to give a reason for a sorcerer to remain a pure sorcerer. So I better not hear anymore griping about "cheezy" sorcerer builds on here.

[Lockonnow]

of couse it is better to have more spells per day you only play sorcerer couse it is a pro level to play on

[illithid]

And I personally don't think an extra 2 spells each spell level a day is that great of a thing

Given the current implementation would consider that 18 separate feats... that's a rather sweeping statement without a lot of justification

[Tantive]

The big thing for sorcerors is the ability to spam any spell they know over multiple spell levels. An Empowered, Maximised and normal casting of a singular damage dealing spell. Just Pew pew Pew. Thats why Scolar of Candlekeep is so nice for them, PEWPEWPEW

[Hawke]

Yeah, I was about to mention, getting 18 extra spells per day to cast....that is very huge.

[AlfarinIcebreaker]

It's actually only 1 extra spell per day compared to a Wizard, if you have any clue how to build one. Sorcerers should be given some incentive to staying pure, it is ridiculous that they are practically the only class which doesn't get anything out of staying pure.

[Flights of Fantasy]

An empty gun is about as useful as a broken club. I think the problem might be my gaming background. I played JRPGs and never had the opportunity to do Pen & Paper, so I'm used to magic being easily restored in the middle of a battle by popping an ether.

Edit: Ditto to AlfarinIcebreaker.

[Your best friend]

I agree, as a pure base class they're kind of mediocre, but mixing them can lead to terrifying results -- especially if you're going for a Sorcerer, ASoC, Paladin/Blackguard, and Frost Mage or Pale Master build. High hp, high saves, high AC, and plenty of spells to blast their opponents to the ground. Good luck hurting them when they're fully buffed.