Rogue/Assassin/Invisible Blade

[Winterborne]

Hm, do you think it is worth trying to ditch fighter entirely and go swashbuckler/IB in some amount of split and stick one more into Assassin for another DA die? Is Daring Outlaw a thing here?

[chad878262]

Daring Outlaw is not implemented. I can't tell you what is worth it or not, but it does sound kind of fun to do a SB5/IB5/R10/A10. Double INT to damage plus bleed damage. My advice is to play around with the builder and compare it to your current build. You are obviously losing some feats (which is rough as rogue builds tend to be a bit feat starved), but free finesse from SB might help a bit. Damage wise what you lose with regard to weapon feats you likely make up for with Insightful Strike and Combat Insight. Note that you could consider taking SB to 12 to gain epic precision in which case you don't need Rogue. So something like SB12/A9/IB5/X4 is also an option, though your sneak dice will be lower. For example SB12/A10/IB5/NWN3 gets 7d6 sneak dice and 27 BAB so when under haste you actually hit 13 APR which will give you a 5th sneak attack in the first flurry out of HiPS.

Sorry, this probably isn't helping you decide so much as opening up even more options to consider...

[matelener]

Here's a Swash / Assasin build I made:

http://nwn2db.com/build/?270237

[Winterborne]

Looking at my comparison of the two builds I worked out, it's looking like I'd end up losing 8 AB and Blind Fight for Insightful Strike, +2d6 Sneak Damage, Bleeding Wound III, and 6 AC. Both builds have combat insight so I didn't consider that, and Insightful Strike more than makes up for the melee mastery damage, it's just a matter of if the AB loss is worth it (I assume probably since it's not BAB and thus still 10 attacks with both builds).

That would be Ro11/Asn9/SB5/IB5 - The build I've slapped together for this is here:
http://nwn2db.com/build/?273171

[chad878262]

I'm curious how you lose 8 AB? You still have weapon focus, but not GWF/EWF/MM so that is 5 total AB, 1 BAB from going Assassin 9 instead of 8 is a total of 6. What am I missing? In any case your AB with a +4 weapon and +4 DEX item is still going to be 38 which is well above where it needs to be for striking out of HiPS.

[Winterborne]

I'm curious how you lose 8 AB? You still have weapon focus, but not GWF/EWF/MM so that is 5 total AB, 1 BAB from going Assassin 9 instead of 8 is a total of 6. What am I missing? In any case your AB with a +4 weapon and +4 DEX item is still going to be 38 which is well above where it needs to be for striking out of HiPS.

You're right, is 6, not 8. The actual number ended up being 7 from using a greater dex and having 1 higher Starting Dex, so a final Dex of 28 vs 26 for the IB variant. But I still think overall, worth the trade.

Fighter version I was using here:

http://nwn2db.com/build/?273177

[mrm3ntalist]

Getting Combat insight and/or Insight strike does not worth it. Especially if that means losing epic dodge.

For 5 levels of SB you lose 2d6SA - maybe 3d6. Thats an average of 7 damage or 10,5. Epic dodge is the no1 defensive feats that rogues get and something that allow them to fight bosses in the Epics. You wont fight toe-to-toe with enemies. You will strike from hips, deliver the first fluury, then run away and hips. Epic dodge helps after attacking to avoid any damage until you hips again.

Combat Insight and Insightful strike dont come anywhere close to epic dodge. It is a much more valuable feat and that is why everyone takes it.

[Winterborne]

I am already doing that (flurry, rehide, repeat) against bosses without issue, but I have 48AC with all my buffs up.

I think Insight/SB is a decent trade off for the loss of two sneak dice. If for 3 dice the average is 10.5, with a 6 INT mod I am getting 12 crittable damage on every attack. Damage wise it seems to be a wash, as you said, maybe not worth it overall to lose epic Dodge but I haven't run into a situation yet where I wished I had it.

That said, I am feeling like IB may not be worth it since the bleed gets eaten up by damage reduction real easily. It's a shame the IB bleed doesn't bypass DR like Expose Weakness's bleed does - I think I'd prefer this, even if it meant sucking up a nerf to the damage by half (1/2/3 instead of 2/4/6) for balance. The high damage reduction that high level mobs have here makes IB basically useless other than for the AC IMO.