Coming Soon: Discussion Thread (2017)

[Nachti]

From my other post:

Cavestalker's Spider shape hasnt recieved a nerf. It benefited greatly from magical beast shape changes and had to be brough in line with it again.

Oh what had it before? At level 30: 34 STR 28 DEX 28 CON 3 AC and 2d6+1 bite?
And now? At level 22: 28 STR 25 DEX 25 CON 10 AC and 2d10+1 +1d8 con drain bite, blind-fight?

It lost 6 STR but gained +3 dmg. It lost 3 DEX but gained +7 AC. It lost 3 CON but gained 30 temporary hitpoints.

Not to mention that AC, Dmg, Bite and the feat is granted at cavestalker 1 and it opens up 8 levels of something else as it is maxed at CL 22. Maybe take 8 Fighter for Greater Focus Unarmed and Weapon Spec?

[Diamore]

Perhaps. But lets face it the only reason people play druid is to go dragon shape.

I have always played a druid on this server as my main. I have never taken, nor aimed for, Dragon Shape.

Wizards and Sorcerers getting a Dragon Shape, of an appropriate power and level compared to other Polymorph options, seems perfectly fine and balanced.

The level 27 requirement for Dragon Shape Feat is bothersome, any change that limits build options always feels like a poor choice. You require being a pure druid already to get the upgrades to Dragon Shape, limiting the feat to a pure build as well seems unnecessary.

[Steve]

Okay, so there are new bonuses that are great improvements.

Am I correct it will lose 3 AB with the STR loss?

I appreciate your suggestion on "what to do with your new free 8 levels," but is it a good idea to pigeonhole a player into taking 1 Class to get what they lost via a mechanics change, as well...your 8 Fighter/12 Druid combo would also entail a 20% multiclassing penalty...and I emphasize penalty!!!

EDIT: not to forget to mention the CL hit.

Don't get me wrong: I think it's super that so many mechanics are getting updated/reviewed. I just hope you understand it's not cool to have someone say "your build/character got changed, so take Fighter levels and be happy." I know that is a crass way of looking at it, but...I'll count myself lucky the 100% RCR is still valid, so I can fix my build...for the 4th time because of Dev/QC changes!!! Lol.

[dedude]

Having to RCR is a b*tch, and we will try to avoid changes that require RCR, but complaining about those changes is just...

[Steve]

Having to RCR is a b*tch, and we will try to avoid changes that require RCR, but complaining about those changes is just...

You can call it complaining, in order to defend your position. Whatever. I'm pointing out that changes are made, literally changing the ability of a build and a Character, and that has a consequence.

Not to forget to mention that by telling a Player to add a Class, you are also telling them to change their RP. That isn't how things are supposed to be.

Is it that you guys feel I was asking for MORE POWER and special treatment? As well, truly "complaining" about your efforts! Please, do not be sensitive in this way. There is the possibility that a change is not correct, or to say, perfectly thought out. Right?

[Nachti]

Yep. BTSCC is not a server that used to get many updates iin the past. Due new tools and a open-minded staff this has changed.

At the moment players are beta testers and I unterstand that "constantly having things changed" hurts when you have to put alot into leveling. I hope this changes when we get a test server, so QC can test things before they go live.

.I'll count myself lucky the 100% RCR is still valid, so I can fix my build...for the 4th time because of Dev/QC changes!!! Lol.

You will do it for a fifth time. When Shifter gets released.

[Steve]

You will do it for a fifth time. When Shifter gets released.

Haha. Ouch. You give a fair warning!!

[Wolfrayne]

1) A druid has a variety of abilities, no? Hes some sort of "can do everything". In that case he shouldnt be as good as someone that specializes into a specific thing.

2) Druids got baleful polymorph, which will be a save-or-die spell next update. Combined with owls wisdom a druid can become a powerful transmuter.

3) Druid's Phantom Animals, Dire Animals and some elementals were improved and now work with "augment summoning".

4) No one is taking dragon shapes away from druids.

5) Cavestalker's Spider shape hasnt recieved a nerf. It benefited greatly from magical beast shape changes and had to be brough in line with it again.

Oh what had it before? At level 30: 34 STR 28 DEX 28 CON 3 AC and 2d6+1 bite?
And now? At level 22: 28 STR 25 DEX 25 CON 10 AC and 2d10+1 +1d8 con drain bite, blind-fight?

It lost 6 STR but gained +3 dmg. It lost 3 DEX but gained +7 AC. It lost 3 CON but gained 30 temporary hitpoints.

Not to mention that AC, Dmg, Bite and the feat is granted at cavestalker 1 and it opens up 8 levels of something else as it is maxed at CL 22. Maybe take 8 Fighter for Greater Focus Unarmed and Weapon Spec?

6) A druid can use a wand of breach. When I recall correctly breachable spells were mostly arcane so divine spells have a benefit here.

7) If you want more epic forms than dragon wait for the shifter class. If you stay nice and helpful it might hit the server earlier.

Ok im not saying druids are bad or anything by any means, i chose to play the class because i enjoy it and yes they can be "jack of all trades master of none" but they can still only really be played one way and im fine with that but if you allow any caster access to shapes that are iconic to druid and require a heavy investment to obtain.... why would you pick the class?

2. So do mages. A good transmute specialist will beat a DC druid.
3. mages can summon and get planar creatures which are just as powerful if not more so. and they have PRC that can enhance them further.
4. i would hope not! (wouldnt mind a gold version so im not running around red all the time worrying about being attacked)
5. Underdark only. No use to me.... how many druids are underdark?
6. Druids can use wands yes but we cant do so shifted thus making us vulnerable..
7. Happy to help out in any way i can if it will speed up the process... im no builder/scripter but im more than happy to spend time testing.

Druids are fine the way they are but they are very limited in their style of play even so because the very nature of druids requires they to play a certain way. you HAVE to worship a god and follow their dogma or lose your powers. A wizard can have any kind of story any background capable of doing or being anything they want with an insane number of prestige and such to enhance their abilities.

Take out the mechanical aspect and even from a pure RP aspect they are still limited such is the nature of religious classes tied close to nature in this timeline.

There are NO prestige classes that are worth taking on druid... unless you are dipping in to druid to get buffs.

Sorry for taking things off track a bit and i'm really not trying to sound like spoiled child or anything like that, its really not my intention here.

[dedude]

Not to forget to mention that by telling a Player to add a Class, you are also telling them to change their RP. That isn't how things are supposed to be.

Not to mention that AC, Dmg, Bite and the feat is granted at cavestalker 1 and it opens up 8 levels of something else as it is maxed at CL 22. Maybe take 8 Fighter for Greater Focus Unarmed and Weapon Spec?

Do you really read this as telling you to add a class? It is 8 levels of anything you like where you don't need to worry about shape progression. That is a big boon to the class.

Please, do not be sensitive in this way.

I'm not, I didn't make this change, and I had nothing to do with its implementation. But...

There is the possibility that a change is not correct, or to say, perfectly thought out. Right?

There is also a possibility that your quick assessment of the changes, even before they are live on the server, is not correct, right?

[Steve]

The Server update log stated Cavestalker Vermin shape was adjusted. I referenced this in an earlier post in this thread.

I can understand spider shape went OP with the magical beast shape general update. But I was banking on how it functioned before, with final stats, especially with them being on even numbers—now going to odd numbers—and it all has an effect.

You guys just want to keep a good Spidergnome down. Bunch a Hobgoblins, I tell ya!!

[Nachti]

Too bad Arachnomancer will be drow only.

[Steve]

Too bad Arachnomancer will be drow only.

Why you guys always have to pick on the little people!!!

[dedude]

The spidergnome class is gonna be the bomb, though! Losely based on Homers spiderpig - O.P.

[Steve]

Alas...Nachti did not add Pig to the new RP Forms!!

[BlueAce417]

Incidentally the next PRC is Dragon Disciple, an altered version, and you don't get to be a dragon.

Will this "Dragon Disciple" permit spell gain? My sorcerer has a large interest in becoming more akin to dragons. I made him take some levels in Dragon Warrior but that felt misplaced. Would they enable a "half-dragon" sort of ability?