Wilderness Stalker

[AlfarinIcebreaker]

http://nwn2db.com/build/?273737

This is a copy of Molag's WS build, just slightly altered. What do you guys think? Here's breakdown, compared to yardstick Rogue/SD builds :

Cons :
No Epic Dodge - obviously a big feat

Pros :
Camouflage+Blinding Speed for great mobility
Better HP through Toughness and increased CON (planning for belt of growth, so ends up on 16 CON) and WS/Ranger HD
Better saves - Fortitude through WS/Ranger and Will slightly better with Steadfast
Good AC - LoH, +2 AC from WS and Combat Expertise, it can reach up to 50 AC with best equipment, CE active, Blinding Speed and Shield Wand
Better AB - high BAB from WS/Ranger

What do you guys think? The other option I was thinking of was 25 Phantom/5 Shadowdancer. Gets Epic Dodge but not much else. Also would you replace CE with something else? That's my only doubt for feats category.

[chad878262]

Steadfast seems wasted as your Fortitude is likely still going to fail on a 1 and your Will saves are still really bad. Unless you have plenty of gear to improve both Fortitude and Will Saves I would switch it out for something else. Since you took CE it would be a decent benefit to grab Deadly Defense for + 2.5 average damage per hit. If not I don't see CE as a great pick as you aren't getting Combat Insight or Feint and you don't really want to have CE active when attacking out of stealth IMO.

Going Assassin 9 is an option for more sneak dice and a second 4th level spell cast per day at the expense of 1 AC and 1 BAB. Not saying it is the better of the 2 options, just something to consider

[Storm Munin]

What are you after with the build?

rogue11/wst7/cst3/asn9
BAB 24
8 SA Dice minimum (+5d DA)
Hide in Shadows feat and HIPS
Camoflage feat in all natural environments
Autotracking

Epic dodge is not a requirement to play, but it is possible to fit in ditching assassin and pumping dex/rogue levels.

[Sun Wukong]

Steadfast migth be useless... but what was the DC on the Basilisk petrification again? I remember it being something between 10 and 35 over the years... Because basilisks used to be easy experience if you did not get petrified.

So yeah, like others have said, you could switch it for the Deadly Defense for a little bit more damage.

As for build itself, I would actually go for Rogue 10/Wilderness Stalker 8/Ranger 3/Asassin 9 even though that will drop your BAB to just 24. Technically you get the same amount of sneak attack dice, except that Death Attack dice tends to do full sneak attack dice against crit immunes while rogue sneak attack dice does only half. Not sure if that has been fixed or not, but it should let you do more damage.

It is just a long way to level 27 for Epic Precision, you could get it at level 25 but your build does not have Able Learner, so your skill points might end up different. But if you like the role-play, I think the build you posted should do fine...

But were I making a sneak build like that, I think I would be making a Human Fighter 4/Wilderness Stalker 10/Rogue 12/Shadowdancer 4 or Fighter 4/Wilderness Stalker 10/Rogue 13/Shadowdancer 3 - the first build gets 26 BAB while the other gets 25 BAB, +1d6 sneak attack and the extra rogue bonus feat. (Both builds have the same amount of attacks in the first attack flurry, the first build has more when flanking etc.) The fighter bonus feats let you have few things for free, and Human lets you grab both of Luck of Heroes and Able Learner at level 1.

[mrm3ntalist]

I always thought molag's build was about an arcer and not a TWF, but i might be wrong.

Personally, i prefer getting Epic Dodge on TWF sneak builds. You will get hit after landing the first flurry of attacks then run away. Epic Dodge takes care of that. Archer can get away from it, since they can put some distance between them and their target, therefore they can do without epic dodge.

Regarding the builds, the one you linked is definitely playable and its a different rogue RP than what we usually see which is very interesting. The only way to fit epic dodge is with shadowdancer instead of Assassin. Difficult choice

[metaquad4]

Here is a build I built recently:

http://nwn2db.com/build/?272832

Personally, I'm not as fond of epic dodge. You can use mirror image wands to supplement for it. Epic dodge only dodges 1 attack per round (if more than 1 enemies are attacking you, it'll only dodge from 1 of those enemies) and its a significant drain on your feats for this boon. A skilled and well equipped rogue can easily make do without it.

It seems like a waste to take a large investment of a feat after dealing with the l2p issues that it gives some limited protection against, imo.

You end up with a respectable AB (38 AB with a +4 weapon and cat's grace on, 37 AB with a +3 weapon and cat's grace on), swift tracking, camoflauge, HiPs, expose weakness, 16d6 sneak dice, PTWF, and (of course) epic precision. The tools you get, coupled with deft UMD usage, should be more than enough to keep you alive.


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As far as Phantom, I recently played a simple 21 Phantom/9 Assassin to great success. My unbuffed hide and move silent were in the low 90s and 80s respectively, I got 16d6 sneak dice, and between UMD, Ghost Steps, and HiPs I ended up doing some serious damage. As long as you don't run out of ghost steps and know what you are doing with UMD and your HiPs cooldown, its fairly difficult to die (as long as enemies can't spot you or aren't throwing down AoEs, like other sneak attackers). Plus it had some wonderful RP flavor to it.

[Sun Wukong]

Here is a build I built recently:

http://nwn2db.com/build/?272832

This seems better than the builds shown before.

[ZStreeter]

21 Phantom / 9 Assassin is something I've thought about doing. But as an archer for that manyshot/death attack goodness and a little bit of distance between yourself and your target.

Of course, the 9 Assassin levels push epic precision and HIPS further apart than they ought to be. But it shouldn't be too bad a problem.