Requesting Tiefling Crossbowman build

[NegInfinity]

Requesting a tiefling crossbowman build (heavy crossbow).

My best crossbow sniper attempt (Rogue 3-4, Assassin 8, Fighter 18-19) has only 41 ab at level 30 and is very fragile past level 21.

A bit of magic is okay, as long as it is not a cleric, hips is okay, and would be nice to have some rogue skills (disable device/lockpick). I only have access to +3 equipment top.

[mrm3ntalist]

http://nwn2db.com/build/?109069

this build ( adapted to tieflings ) wont let you down. A lot of damage with no range constraints and excellent defenses. For me, as good as an xbow build can get. Kind of low skill points ( for such builds ) is the only drowback

Other than that, a Ranger(hunter)22/Assassin8 is very strong with no need for spells - if spells are for you, you can skip the hunter kit

[thebeasttt]

http://nwn2db.com/build/?195041

Replace with Tiefling, heavy xbow and possibly more STR since mighty xbows exist for some reason. Never get rapid reload, since a ton of items have that feat here.

[Rudolph]

Would 41 AB with HiPS be too low?

[NegInfinity]

By the way, my previous attempts are here:
http://nwn2db.com/build/?242016
http://nwn2db.com/build/?242074

Basically, this char can lland 110 damage occasionally (sneak + multishot), but around level 21 hitting certain things becomes problematic, and in reality the damage averages around 56 or so per multishot - if it lands.

http://nwn2db.com/build/?109069

this build ( adapted to tieflings ) wont let you down. A lot of damage with no range constraints and excellent defenses. For me, as good as an xbow build can get. Kind of low skill points ( for such builds ) is the only drowback

Other than that, a Ranger(hunter)22/Assassin8 is very strong with no need for spells - if spells are for you, you can skip the hunter kit

Could you elaborate on the Ranger(hunter) thing? I've seen that there are "kits" but I have not seen any documentation regarding what they actually do.

[thebeasttt]

Replacing fighter with ranger is an AB loss. Elemental archer will give you +2 AB and damage, basically for free.

[NegInfinity]

By the way.... what do you consider a decent damage output for a Crossbow Sniper? (With and Without sneak attack)

[AlfarinIcebreaker]

You could also try Ranger. Ranger 30, for instance, can reach 38 Dexterity with Bane of Enemies. That is +21 damage per shot with Crossbow Sniper, Master.

Dexterity will also boost your AC, AB and sneaking skills which is a win-win. Your AC can reach :

10 base + 14 Dexterity + 2 Protective Ward +1 LoH + 5 Barkskin (natural) + 4 Halo of Sand (Deflection) +4 armor bonus + 4 dodge bonus +4 Shield potion +1 Tumble = 50 AC. That is AC, you also have HiPS with fantastic sneaking skills due to obscene dexterity and Ranger Spells, and you have Camouflage.

AB will be :

30 BAB + 14 Dexterity + 4 Weapon bonus + 1 Weapon Focus +3 Ranger spells (Hawkeye, Aid, Blessed Aim) = 52 AB.

Damage will be : 21 Dexterity + 6 Crossbow base damage + 4 Weapon bonus + 4 Mighty = 35 against non FE. Against FE it will be more like shooting rockets.

The only downside to this is that you can't pick Blinding Speed if you want 38 DEX and Bane of Enemies.

Another option is Ranger 26/Fighter 4. 4 Fighter allows for Ranged Weapon Mastery which is +2 to AB and damage. This is probably a better option as it allows you to reach both Blinding Speed while still retaining pretty much all boons from Ranger 30, if slightly decreased AC and one FE less. You will have XP penalty with Tiefling, though.

[Sun Wukong]

By the way.... what do you consider a decent damage output for a Crossbow Sniper? (With and Without sneak attack)

I have used Fighter 30 as a template for decent Crossbow Sniper damage:

1d10 (Heavy Crossbow)
+ 8 (Feats)
+ 4 (Enchantment Bonus)
+ 21 (Dexterity modifier 1*5)
= 38.5~ per bolt. (Double this for Manyshot.)

Thus in a single round you could deal about 269.5~ damage if all attacks land. (Includes fourth attack from Blinding Speed.) (Even with 38+ dexterity, concealment is your enemy.)

Thus, if your damage output goes above 200+, I think you should be doing just fine.

[NegInfinity]

By the way.... what do you consider a decent damage output for a Crossbow Sniper? (With and Without sneak attack)

I have used Fighter 30 as a template for decent Crossbow Sniper damage:

1d10 (Heavy Crossbow)
+ 8 (Feats)
+ 4 (Enchantment Bonus)
+ 21 (Dexterity modifier 1*5)
= 38.5~ per bolt. (Double this for Manyshot.)

Thus in a single round you could deal about 269.5~ damage if all attacks land. (Includes fourth attack from Blinding Speed.) (Even with 38+ dexterity, concealment is your enemy.)

Thus, if your damage output goes above 200+, I think you should be doing just fine.

Hmm...

Few more questions:

What about "Bard + asssassin?" There seems to be skill synergy between them.

How viable is a non-hipsing crossbowman/archer, exactly? Figther 30 can reach 37 dexterity, but they don't get any good skill, and will be incredibly vulnerable to anything they can't kill before it gets close. (No evasion, athough AC can be very high. It is possible to have finesseable weapon as a backup, but the damage will be very low).

[NegInfinity]

Alright.

After thinking it over for some time, I realized that the problem was not with the character build but rather with the character who felt largely disconnected from everything going on on the server.

So I decided to create a different character instead - with slightly different placement of levels and different skillpoint allocation.

Thanks for all the responses.

[Nyeleni]

http://nwn2db.com/build/?109069

this build ( adapted to tieflings ) wont let you down. A lot of damage with no range constraints and excellent defenses. For me, as good as an xbow build can get. Kind of low skill points ( for such builds ) is the only drowback

SNIP

Thanks for the link Mentalist.
However be aware that the lvl 6 is crossbow sniper master and improved rapid shot is a wasted feat without One Shot. At least I think rapid shot doesn't work with crossbow in BGtSCC.

I took Blinding Speed instead. Greater Dexterity would work as well, there is a +4 dexterity item in a shop now.

Edit: Interesting would be investing in search and disable trap as well - I would take those points from spot or listen.

[NegInfinity]

http://nwn2db.com/build/?109069

this build ( adapted to tieflings ) wont let you down. A lot of damage with no range constraints and excellent defenses. For me, as good as an xbow build can get. Kind of low skill points ( for such builds ) is the only drowback

SNIP

Thanks for the link Mentalist.
However be aware that the lvl 6 is crossbow sniper master and improved rapid shot is a wasted feat without One Shot. At least I think rapid shot doesn't work with crossbow in BGtSCC.

I took Blinding Speed instead. Greater Dexterity would work as well, there is a +4 dexterity item in a shop now.

Edit: Interesting would be investing in search and disable trap as well - I would take those points from spot or listen.

I'm pretty sure it works. Without rapid shot you get two attacks max, with rapid show you get three, with haste you get four.

[Nyeleni]

Ah all right. With rapid reload, rapid shot is useful with a crossbow. That information was missing from the entry in rapid shot.

Still I am not unhappy with blinding speed instead of improved rapid shot. I can live with the -2ab.

[Sun Wukong]

How viable is a non-hipsing crossbowman/archer, exactly? Figther 30 can reach 37 dexterity, but they don't get any good skill, and will be incredibly vulnerable to anything they can't kill before it gets close. (No evasion, athough AC can be very high. It is possible to have finesseable weapon as a backup, but the damage will be very low).

Levels 1-11, Fighter Crossbower is the easiest character to play here.

As for Fighter 30;
20 (Base Dexterity at character creation)
+ 7 (Stock ability increases)
+ 4 (Cat's Grace potion/item ability enchantment bonus)
+ 7 (Great Dexterity Feats, you could have 3 more but those might be better spent on Epic Weapon feats and Blinding Speed.)
= 38 (or 40 if you just want Blinding Speed.)

As for melee alternative, pre-epic fighter will have those 11 Fighter bonus feats to spare. You can afford to get Greater Weapon Specialization and some appropriate Melee Weapon Mastery feat to go alongside it. Then you might even consider getting Combat Insight with some of your epic feats. Deadly Defense can net you extra 1d4 melee damage too. All these things add up to reasonably high melee damage...

But as a fighter based Crossbow Sniper, you are not limited to just ranged sneak attack range. You can very easily just pick up single enemies from afar and pelt them full of bolts before they even reach you.