Suggestion: Remove all +1/+2 items from the Loot Tables

[Sun Wukong]

What is the available alternative to farming in circles, daily, for a month? This is a serious question, because if there isn't an alternative with equal merits/results, then there is a problem, yes?

DM events, you get involved in DM events. You can reap the several thousand points of experience points and whatever else you might find as rewards. Throughout the server's history there have been many players who have gotten their 'epic gear' through nothing but DM event participation. Plus instead of risking their lives and experience gains against a random roll of 1, they can largely just sit by campfires, etc and type things until they max out on their daily RP experience. Some have even gotten to level 30 on nothing but RP and Event experience.

And just like with grinding, you stick to a singular character that can do what he must do. With grinding, it is the ability to loot, with 'DM event hogging' it is all about knowing everyone so that your character gets involved in all possible DM plots.

There is an alternative, thus ther eis no problem, yes?

2 things here: 1) +1 gear is sold at NPC merchants in abundance! Better still, you can cherry pick for your Toon—Loot is semi-random and thus getting Coin/gems in place of +1 gear is by far the more kind and efficient means of "rewarding" newbies. Just think about it for a bit.

That +1 gear will cost a new player an arm and a leg. Usually a 1000-1500 pieces of gold a piece. The +2 equipment will cost 3000-13000 pieces of gold a piece, depending on nothing but the item and enchantment. Thus it doesn't matter if there is a merchant with tons of +1 items, because right off the bat that level 1 character cannot afford any of it.

What they can afford is slightly better mundane set of armor, heavy shield, and a weapon, which usually is enough to get them started. Thus when they find that random +1 Weapon, it could be something that they can use, or sell.

Hence, if the 'crappy items' are replaced with gems and gold, it is just things they need to cart off to a NPC merchant to sell and then walk to another merchant to buy the item they want. And lets not forget that with the NPC limitations on the maximum buyout sum of gold, you would have to be splitting those gem stacks to get the most amount of money. For example a stack of 10 diamonds would pretty much have to be split 10 times...

I have thought about it. I think I prefer the current status quo.

2) expecting new—and old—Players to learn the Farming Circuit for "material" gains, is destructive to a role-play environment. You are in turn creating a Pac-Man-esque environment, supported by a lingering SIMS-like hangout. How can this be good for D&D fantasy adventures, or, make BGTSCC anything different than a million other mindless CRPGs?!?

Well, funny you said that, because I could easily make the argument how the requirement to partake in 'Camp Fire RP' has been destructive to a role-playing environment. Because there are players that cannot fathom a single reason why another character would not automatically like their character. Therefore, whenever any minor player against player conflict arises these players just do not know what to do or how to react in character. Thus in the worst case scenario they will spend half a hour or more spamming you with completely oblivious tells...

Now, I suppose I could roleplay some dim-witted do-gooder that believes there is good in everyone, and that is literally half of my current characters. But every now and then I also want to play a (person) jackass that would rather stab your character in the back at the first chance he gets. The evil alingments are available at character creation, the evil PRCs are available on level up, evil deities are selectable for worship, etc, ect.

As for Pac-Man, great game, I like it a lot. Waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka-waka...

But as for the need to do loot circles, that is not really the case. Just pick a single dungeon near some city hub, do it every now and then and with time you will find stuff. It will just get longer, but you can do it.

Finally, I would like to remind that if majority of the server is soloable with +3 equipment, with avarage enough build, and you stick to a single character, then you can easily get that +3 equipment and not have to worry about grinding after that fact. You are literally not forced to grind if you do not want to, thus the issue is you wanting to achieve something without wanting to put the work towards it. This is fine, for example, I'd rather have free exp instead of quest grind... But you kind of have to convince others why it would be good to bring out such a change, and I just feel that in this loot-question the arguments are lacking...

[Steve]

DM events DO NOT equal the supposed 150-300k coin Circle Farming per week, or whatever that is being thrown around as the answer to most things related to loot/items/"nice things." I should know!!!


If +1 items of particular use to any particular Toon cost 1k per on avg., then that's a total of 9,000 coin. Easy: start off Level 1s with 9k of Coin. Done. Alternatively within a few hours of adventuring, and just receiving Coin + Gems in equal amount to the crap gear that is +1 items, a new Toon will have either a) 9k in coin or, after some RL days of adventuring, b) 27k for a useful, particular set of +2 Gear.

How in the hell can you argue a NPC merchant has buyout limits for coin, when you're advocating selling of crap gear for equal amount of coin?!?! Pretty bizarre math, monkey man.


Look, you can STILL pac-man away, and gain even +3 and above gear all over, if that is how the chests are toggled. Removing +1/+2 gear does not remove the chances of finding the same "good stuff," as it exists now.

What removing +1/+2 gear does is reduce the amount of garbage loot left around the Server, and put coin directly in the pockets of Toons to purchase worthwhile gear, IN PLACE OF this hollow construct that collecting unusable gear and converting to Coin, is actually somehow better, or more "role-play." What it is is simply more time consuming, and kinda ridiculous, that there is actually THAT MUCH magic gear just laying around, infinitely, on the Sword Coast.

You can read into things as much as you like monkey man, but I am not arguing for getting something for nothing. Not at all. What I am arguing is to NOT get unusable stuff to convert to usable stuff, instead, go directly to usable stuff, that is Coin, which makes a ton more "realistic" sense, and saves all of our Inventories a whole load of trouble.

EDIT: anyway, I've said my piece; no need to defend it more. +1/+2 items are what they are, and how they are or are not being useful in both the actual economy +/- grind-farming of BGTSCC, is evident. It could be much simpler, more realistic, etc.....if you consider. Cheers.

[Sun Wukong]

DM events DO NOT equal the supposed 150-300k coin Circle Farming per week, or whatever that is being thrown around as the answer to most things related to loot/items/"nice things." I should know!!!

Well, I do not really take part in DM events... But the one that was literally thrown at me did end up bringing me about 100+k.... in coin. I suppose mileage may vary... With terms and conditions applied too. And note, the gold wasn't exactly a DM reward... Technically...

If +1 items of particular use to any particular Toon cost 1k per on avg., then that's a total of 9,000 coin. Easy: start off Level 1s with 9k of Coin. Done. Alternatively within a few hours of adventuring, and just receiving Coin + Gems in equal amount to the crap gear that is +1 items, a new Toon will have either a) 9k in coin or, after some RL days of adventuring, b) 27k for a useful, particular set of +2 Gear.

Ask a friend to sit in Nexus, create a character, pass over the gold, talk to character deleter, relog and spam through character creation by clicking next, pass over the gold and talk to character deleter...

How in the hell can you argue a NPC merchant has buyout limits for coin, when you're advocating selling of crap gear for equal amount of coin?!?! Pretty bizarre math, monkey man.

Because those NPC merchants have buyout limits, it is what is on the server. It is unlikely to change if the loot starts dropping more gems, and instead of just selling the junk you've found, you have to spend who knows how long splitting stacks of gems. (Unless what you get are junkiest of junk gems...)

Look, you can STILL pac-man away, and gain even +3 and above gear all over, if that is how the chests are toggled. Removing +1/+2 gear does not remove the chances of finding the same "good stuff," as it exists now.

I often start this server from scratch for reasons that might seem more obvious to others than some. It is more fun to find actual equipment you can use, than a bunch of shiny stones I'd have to sell to one vendor, and then go talk to another several transitions away to get a piece of equipment.

What removing +1/+2 gear does is reduce the amount of garbage loot left around the Server, and put coin directly in the pockets of Toons to purchase worthwhile gear, IN PLACE OF this hollow construct that collecting unusable gear and converting to Coin, is actually somehow better, or more "role-play." What it is is simply more time consuming, and kinda ridiculous, that there is actually THAT MUCH magic gear just laying around, infinitely, on the Sword Coast.

It certainly is more D&D than the gem mine simulator you suggest. Also note, I do run in circles and I have not encountered this garbage loot problem you've brought up. If you want more gold, then there is a far better thing you can suggest. For example, a 'Wand of Midas' sold by some merchants with a spell that destroys items and gives a tiny fraction of the item's base value as gold. It would have a gold cap, you wouldn't get as much as from a merchant, and it wouldn't destroy items without a value. You would still be stuck with cursed items, until curse is removed. How's that sounding to you?

You can read into things as much as you like monkey man, but I am not arguing for getting something for nothing. Not at all. What I am arguing is to NOT get unusable stuff to convert to usable stuff, instead, go directly to usable stuff, that is Coin, which makes a ton more "realistic" sense, and saves all of our Inventories a whole load of trouble.

Alright, let me read into things, you want to circle loot with a no-strength character. You feel you cannot, because your character has no strength. Hence you just want gold, and gems, things that have no weight in this game. And no trouble would be saved, more would be created as you would be forced to micro manage gem transactions.

So, how does that Wand of Midas sound to you? (No idea if it can be created, but how does it sound to you?)

[Calodan]

Well, I do not really take part in DM events... But the one that was literally thrown at me did end up bringing me about 100+k.... in coin. I suppose mileage may vary... With terms and conditions applied too. And note, the gold wasn't exactly a DM reward... Technically...

If you are talking about what I think you are talking about Kory vastly overpaid for that blue diamond........



On another note. On first glance since the RIG to Chest system has been fixed the items dropping in high CR areas are pretty damn good right now. I would say it is perfect please oh gods do not nerf it. The amount of items dropped should very much alleviate a bit of the concerns for those who do not farm bosses for gold. I found some nice stuff today. Nothing EPIC but stuff worth selling and putting on auction so I call that a win. That was not the case just a few short weeks ago. I was often leaving a dungeon with nothing in my bag for items. It was pretty bad. Now not so bad. Looking good and I am enjoying RIG shots from chests thoroughly. Going to be so sweet the day I really find something good.......

[NegInfinity]

It sounds harsh, but hear me out.

Like 95% of the time, loot from drops and chests, are +1 items.

No. Those fetch up to 1350 gp. Just getting 1350 gold instead isn't fun.

a weight issue.

Bring a dwarf or a rock genasi with you.

Do the BG quests and a few hours in the graveyard, and

Quests are evil and are the worst thing on the server. Opening boxes is fun. Getting an item and not just gold is fun. Running quests is not fun. If someone removes the item generator and +1/+2 stuff.... there will be less reason to play.

--edit--

Is this assuming you've already got some heavy duty armor?

I'm only 17th, as a fighter, and my gear is probably par, or subpar compared to what I'd run into anywhere north of Thundar's Ridge (the area next to field of the dead, which I KNOW will kill me, so I avoid that like a plague.)

That's what partying is for.

I had at least char that needed a companion that could just equip the biggest shield, turn on improved combat expertise, and not die in one hit.

[Steve]

Day 2 of Follow the Leader. Cloudpeak Lizard Caves. Geez...it got worse, than Day 1. Third times a charm?!?!

Hidden: show

https://postimg.org/image/z23tv7v3p/

[chad878262]

I have to ask Steve...are you really posting every box/chest/skeleton you loot, or just the bad ones? It's not that I don't trust you, it's just that I play far less than the average player, in a good week I might log 4-6 hours, in a bad week zero and the norm being probably 1-4 hours of play time (not including QC Testing logins). In that time I probably spend about 1-2 hours going out adventuring and getting loot. I would say I am efficient at it, but by no means does my method of looting dungeons compete with what others are able to do. Even still I generally pick up ~20-60K worth of gold in an 'average' week for me. If you are sincerely out looting 20-30 chests and not getting at least 10K in gold then you are either looting CR10 or lower dungeons or the unluckiest looter alive. When even my boy Calodan is saying the loot is pretty good right now (perfect even) I find it hard to believe that you can't find enough decent stuff to sell to NPC vendors to earn some decent coin.

[Steve]

I have no reason to lie—I'm trying to prove a point. Which is, if it is unclear, that giving statements that farming equals X because Y can do it in Z hours per week, is not a given...besides being uninteresting nor appropriate for a role-play Server.

Yes, the last 2 posts with screenshots of my looting the Lizard Caves—plus Haunted House lvl 3 earlier in the week—are exactly everything that I found. Should I not expect more from a CR 23 area, in terms of risk vs. reward? You tell me. If you want, I can also post my longer 1.5 hour grind runs, if for some reason there is a perceptible percentage of reliability once you hit X amount of time??

The lizard cave is 30 minutes of my RL time, preparing/fighting/healing. Even if you x4 my examples for a 2 hour looting spree, I'm still far from what is being advertised.

Or, just this:

...the unluckiest looter alive.

Which still proves a point that Circle Farming is NOT a given, nor should it be stated as such, such that is it used in arguments against Change.

[CleverUsername123]

Isn't selling the gear/figuring out its value after running through a dungeon and tallying up your net profit a big part of the fun?

[AC81]

I think it's actually good. I've found 3 epic(ish) items and 1 epic item in the past three days. Found a truckload of high end gems (diamonds, ametrines, canary diamonds, sapphires, etc) and can easily sell all the 'junk' for 20-40k a day.

I don't think we need epic stores AND a higher chance of epic loot dropping.

[Azerkatil]

I've been playing a month. I dont mind the +1-+3 items. Selling them at the store has enabled me to now travel around with a +4 gauntlet, Full Mithral, and +4 weapons, as well as +3 AC on other items.. I dont go for anything less.

(to be fair though, when it comes to weight issues. I made a barbarian to gather gold for me. in his usual dungeon run he gathers a good 20k-40k on good days )

[Wandering_Woodsman]

Honestly, you lot are lucky bastards.

I find scrolls, a few coins, and books. I donated 20-30 books to the Phoenix Company, all from finding things as loot.

Rarely will I find actaul equipment. When I do, it's sold to the merchant almost each time.

[Steve]

I think it's actually good. I've found 3 epic(ish) items and 1 epic item in the past three days. Found a truckload of high end gems (diamonds, ametrines, canary diamonds, sapphires, etc) and can easily sell all the 'junk' for 20-40k a day.

I don't think we need epic stores AND a higher chance of epic loot dropping.

This thread is not about more Epic Loot for our toons!!! How can you read that out of this mate?!?

Your experience is awesome, and I am happy for You. Mine has been total crap with total crap Loot, as shown in my ACTUAL SCREENSHOTS, not just words.

To remind you all: the OP is about removing +1/+2 items and replacing with direct Coin of equal value—gems as well if one pleases.

Please don't take the discussion off track by making it about MORE EPIC LOOT. It is definitely no the suggestion being made here!

[Hoihe]

Regarding DM events,


When I was DMing, I was extremely afraid of giving out any material rewards or even RP rewards that have a long-lasting impact fearing accusations of favoritism. It is very rare to get anything decent from a DM event that's of equal value to the investment, as DMs are rightly afraid of players going rabid and accusing them of misconduct and then harrassing them without seeing the whole picture.


Regarding loot,

Sure, keep 1/2 items, but make taking risks worth it. It is more profitable with just as decent chances of finding the gear you want to prowl around FAI every day after log in, even at 30, than risk dying and fighting through the Vault of the Dead. It is somewhat better now that partying is not discouraged by the pitiable amount of loot you can get from just taking on a dungeon at your CR or above divided by investment to succeed being split even further by the number of party members.

[AC81]

I think it's actually good. I've found 3 epic(ish) items and 1 epic item in the past three days. Found a truckload of high end gems (diamonds, ametrines, canary diamonds, sapphires, etc) and can easily sell all the 'junk' for 20-40k a day.

I don't think we need epic stores AND a higher chance of epic loot dropping.

This thread is not about more Epic Loot for our toons!!! How can you read that out of this mate?!?

Your experience is awesome, and I am happy for You. Mine has been total crap with total crap Loot, as shown in my ACTUAL SCREENSHOTS, not just words.

To remind you all: the OP is about removing +1/+2 items and replacing with direct Coin of equal value—gems as well if one pleases.

Please don't take the discussion off track by making it about MORE EPIC LOOT. It is definitely no the suggestion being made here!

My bad then - I assumed you meant taking these items out. Along with other threads about removing junk or whatever, in my mind that means an increased chance of finding higher tier items (not even sure the loot system works like that).
If you just want coin instead of +1/+2 I can see why but I don't think it's needed honestly. I assume it would take a whole lot of work for what? The same overall results.
Also, I can't ever be a new player again, neither can you Steve, but I would assume the new players appreciate the low tier items. I wish I still did - I found a pair of Epic Fighter Boots today and my reaction was 'meh'.