Market Inefficiencies

[Valefort]

A possibility would be to limit the amount of gold you can make from selling to NPC merchants across the server (and per account rather than per PC). For example beyond 50k in a moving week you'll get less and less gold for the items you sell, -1% for each 1000 gold you sell.

[aaron22]

you do not want to require standard of living expense on each character. that makes sense. we are not playing a life simulator, but a fun game. but there are ways to implement these SOL expenses on PCs without it being a chore. in fact, you give something (we already have for free) and make it an amenity to something that creates a perpetual drain on the players gold supply. you want more or bigger amenities. it will cost you.

lets give an example that could have additionals added and in by no means limited to just this one amenity.

player houses. yep. a roof over your head in the city of your choice. (or hut if you are an orc ). these houses come in tiers that cost more for the quality and size of house you are renting. your house is directly tied to a static door that can identity your character when you click it. you will then go to a generic house that is furnished to represent the quality of the house you rent. the more you pay, the more you get. these doors will be placed in a district that also embodies the quality of life you are paying for. these houses will be directly connected to your storage. the bigger the place, the more storage you have available.

T1 studio costs 15gp/wk and has storage of 50
T2 1 bed+1LR costs 50gp/wk and has storage of 100
T3 2 bed+K+LR+balcony costs 200/wk storage of 150
T4 3 bed+ (everything IDK im not savy on this) costs 500/wk and storage of 200
T5 awesome place w/e costs 1000/wk and unlimited storage

[chad878262]

I think the issue is space / area's for these houses. Each one is part of an interior area and we already had to trim back the total area's on the server. I like the idea though and it is an interesting thought to make a limited storage system that includes a gold cost to keep a certain number of goods.

[aaron22]

well the actual interior could be removed from the idea. you could just click the appropriate door and it gives you the amenities for you character. could even open a quest at start that has you speak to the inn keeper so you can get your first apt. from there you can upgrade to better and bigger "doors".

I chose to include an interior because i like the RP that could exist from showing off your super big awesome place. some players play characters that are superficial and this could cater to their designated RP. others could RP that they live in meager means. or the pali that keeps himself spartan and is represented mechanically by the limited amount of storage he actually has in game to further cement the RP unto himself and allowing another to visit would show that this pali does actually make the sacrifices. but the actual interior doesnt need to exist. that is a better case scenario. door=kemo storage is perfectly fine to make this idea work.

[AlfarinIcebreaker]

Maybe we can use Guilds as goldsinks, but also to offer another dimension through gold. For example, guilds could be required to pay upkeep if they have guildhalls and guards/soldiers. But also they could use gold in order to upgrade their assets, better equip soldiers, hire more soldiers and so on. This could be reflected both IG and through server megaplots and in political sense. If, for example, Dwarves pump gold into Kraak Helzak then KH will be better equipped to face potential invasions (Ironfaars anyone?) and play a bigger role on Sword Coast through military might. That should also force players to join up and to shore up 7-8 key guilds which would turn them into hubs for RP.

[aaron22]

i can agree with this. this could also translate into fees unto guild members. which in turn, supplies another line of SOL expenses to the server. if the guild maintenance is 10,000gp pe month then a fee to the members of 200/month is not unreasonable. guild activities to support the costs of guild maintenance.

[chad878262]

Such things would need to be tied in to actual in game time IMO. Would be pretty un-fun for someone who has been away for several weeks/months/years to log in and have negative or zero gold because of a weekly draw against their PC(s). It's no big deal if you are logging in every day to have 100's or even 1000's of gold removed from your character. You know what the timing and cost will be so you just make sure you make at least that amount per week. However, if you are a player that can't always log in at least once a week it would be quite a nasty surprise.

EDIT: similarly, with guilds...membership tends to wax and wane. If there is a set cost of 10K or any other amount that would be rough times for a guild that at one time may have had 20 members, but now only has 3 or 4 active. would need to account for active membership or else players will shy from joining guilds even when strong...because who knows if the membership is going to go on holiday and leave you holding the bill?

[Steve]

Taxes aren't a solution to the Market Economy.

If you want to build a Guild Hall, it already costs an arm and a leg. And THAT comes after what it takes to find a Dev to build the Hall, or what it takes for you to squeeze your own version through a review process. But I digress...

The BGTSCC market is that gold coin has a value until you've purchased all that can be purchased with it reliably. That is in the form of NPC merchants, or PC merchants, if they are in need of coin.

But with infinite coin, soon everyone has enough (at one time or another). I once had 3 million coin, which came from a gift of 1 million, plus the sale of 2 items to another Player who had tens of millions to blow for my items that he was unsuccessful at acquiring through 3 years of grind looting. Crazy guy...but it worked for me!

That coin I immediately spent on items from another Player that I was only able to purchase because that individual was in no need of his epic items anymore, and, their desire to sell really great gear—pre Epic NPC merchant—was an OOC one: they wanted to acquire more gold coin than the Player who had more than them! He simply wanted to be The Richest Player on BGTSCC. So, yeah, OOC motivations worked out again, on top of IC, IG motivations.

Anyway, my point here is that even with infinite coin, that is useful for the majority, but soon it cannot compare to the FINITE Items that exist. The Epic NPC merchant makes good use of that piled up Coin, but it still doesn't equal the Trade Economy, which is more-or-less, in the upper echelons, totally apart from the Coin Economy.

So the problem really isn't Coin or its use/non-use, or even in having too much—which is only relevant for some—instead, the problem is, for some, that Items are beyond Coin and beyond acquiring, a) because there is only 1 of that item in existence, b) the Player has an OOC motivation to not sell for Coin (because of the Infinite Coin Economy).

Nothing will change from this paradigm, really, unless all Items are capped to whatever the RIG can produce, and that cap is available in a Crafting/Enchanting system. But as it has been said by Staff, this won't happen.

So what might happen is that a Crafting/Enchanting system comes online, and with a +3 cap, there will be fantastic opportunity to make custom Items that suit any PC. On top of that, there will be RIG Items that simply are better than the Crafting/Enchanting system and cap, and these RIG items will always be sought after and very, very, very, very, very hard to acquire through Trade (or even find, unless you are like AC81!!! Hi AC!!!!! )

If you cannot get used to the idea that some Players will simply have things you never will on BGTSCC, then you'll pull your hair out, strand by little strand. And that ain't good for you.

Instead, take to heart that if Staff gets it together and actually gives us a +3 capped custom Crafting/Enchanting system, we will all be pretty darn happy because Server Content is solo-able with +3 gear on 90% of Builds. Combine that with adventuring with mages and clerics, and you're really golden.

The only lingering issue, of course, is that some PCs that get involved in PvP with +4 RIG generated items, may well dominate the PvP against all others. The word to pay attention to here is: maybe. Most PvPers of experience will tell you that it isn't so much the gear on a Build, but a) the Player experience of that Build, b) if you get the drop on the opponent. Hotbar Magic, they call it. lol.

Anyway...blah blah blah, right? Point is, it seems far too many Players are simply not creative with their Coin. Sorry, its 99% of the time User Error, right? RIGHT?!?

So please, NO NEW TAXES!!!

[AlfarinIcebreaker]

Crafting with +3 cap will do absolutely nothing. I don't see why would someone go for it, since you already have +4 AC stuff from Epic vendors, and attaining +3 Ability on a prefered slot is easy enough through Mudds/Forum auctions. These items cost less than 20k apiece (Charisma ring, or Wisdom Ring, for instance).

[Wandering_Woodsman]

I could be waaaay out in left field here, but since I have neither knowledge of where this epic merchant is, OR what they sell, and at what prices, I'm in the dark.

The only 'high priced' merchants I know are the few around Baldurs' Gate itself, and I can't afford those, much less this epic merchant that is spoken of in hushed and awed tones.

I'd be all over crafting up to +3 weapons and armor. My smith already has the skill, I just need the ability. Hell, I've got a standing invitation to anyone who wants to RP with him about crafting. He'll gladly repair any gear you've got, and should a farmer (DM) need something repaired or fixed (plow, tools sharpened, etc) just come to the Phoenix Company. I'll fix it up for you.

[Steve]

Crafting with +3 cap will do absolutely nothing. I don't see why would someone go for it, since you already have +4 AC stuff from Epic vendors, and attaining +3 Ability on a prefered slot is easy enough through Mudds/Forum auctions. These items cost less than 20k apiece (Charisma ring, or Wisdom Ring, for instance).

Yes, but a +3 item can also have 2-3 custom attributes of your choosing, making it very custom and HUGELY beneficial to any particular Toon.

[flipside43]

Back up a minute, why is it a problem that needs fixing if I have millions of gold?

As for interior areas, if done properly will be a minimal drain on the server. Exterior areas are what were thinned to cut down on server size.

[aaron22]

first chad. you click the door. if you have not paid your fee. you cannot access your stuff. until you pay your rent, which is paid in advance, you then gain access to the room. simple.

guild maint. costs could be subsidized by getting more when you are strong and then banking it. plus the number i used of 10k/month. geez. one player could do that in a week easy. more likely in a couple hours of hitting some mid level chests.

finally steve. it is clear that the money moves one direction. it doesnt matter. by taking certain actions we can simulate a circular economy. we can never actually create circulation economics. it would be a PITA. for the staff and the players. HUGE PITA. so pick and choose game aspects we already have and simulate an economy.

i dont care if there are people hoarding great gear. i dont understand why anyone would. the game is not reliant upon great gear. if AC81 gave me all his stuff i would be a mess. id spend three weeks rolling toons to utilize all this stuff. id have 25-50 <5th level characters with 1 or 2 awesome pieces no time to play because id be spending years trying to find different orc rp reasons and backgrounds. A mess. but id take still take.. AC81... I W U D S T I L L T A K E I T ! ! !

[Dagesh]

Sell RL BGTSCC gear for IG gold; coffee mugs, shirts, underwear...

[chad878262]

"My buddy went to Darkhold and all I got was this stupid T-Shirt!"

"I'm with stupid" (with an arrow pointing to a picture of Wirg [sorry flasmix])

"I solo'd the White Dragon and this was the loot drop" (coffee mug, but a stein would be better...)