Variant Fighter kit : Thug

[PaulImposteur]

Simple kit that I think would be nice to have.

Replaces Bonus Feats with Sneak attack advancement
Gains 2 to additional skill points upon advancement
Gains some new class skills to reflect the kit better.

[aaron22]

sounds good. starts rolling the orc thug/SD/FB/WM..

[chad878262]

Sorry, but replacing feats with SA progression is a no go. It would have more sneak dice than a rogue (16d6 in 30 levels vs. 15 for pure rogue) making a F18/R3/A9 far superior than any kind of 'true' rogue. I would probably go more with Thug being a Rogue kit that gains some HP and AB in exchange for losing some of the Roguish abilities.

[aaron22]

i think that every bonus feat being replaced is obviously not going to work... how about half o dem? get some extra feats and some SA dices.

[chad878262]

I would give the kit 5d6 sneak attack over 20 levels, note that I think class skills and skill points cannot be different for kits though so again, not sure Thug is best to build off of Fighter kit since it would not have any of the Rogue class skills and would only get Fighter SP / level. I would not give it evasion, but would give it Uncanny Dodge. Would have it lose half it's feats, so 2, 6, 10, 14, and 18 feats would be lost while it would still get fighter bonus feat at 1, 4, 8, 12, 16 and 20 (so 6 out of 11 feats over 20 levels) for example.

Again, the issue is Kits are at least somewhat limited in implementation. I kind of think Thug would need to be it's own class, as opposed to a kit...Or at a minimum we would need to find a different class to make it a kit from. Phantom might work in terms of SP / level, but would bring other issues in to the equation. Like I said, this is probably it's own class, as opposed to a kit.

[aaron22]

that would be a SA dice on 1-4-8-12-16-20-24-28 (8d6 SA) and bonus feats on 2-6-10-14-18-22-26-30

[chad878262]

that would be a SA dice on 1-4-8-12-16-20-24-28 (8d6 SA) and bonus feats on 2-6-10-14-18-22-26-30

Fighter gets a bonus feat at level 1, so I skipped 2, 6, 10, etc. but either way it's the same concept. Generally I don't think kits can go for 30 levels, max is 29 (not that it matter since you'd still want some kind of HiPS to reliably land sneak dice).

8d6 SA dice is about on par with what full BAB PRC's get (they get 3d6 over 10 levels, in general).

If it were me building the class I would make it a base class that gets a bonus feat every 5 levels (similar to M@A) and sneak dice progression at 1, 4, 8, 12, 16, 20, 24 and 28 (8d6). Then I would give a few assigned feats/abilities (again, similar to M@A) unique to the class. Things like Low Blow, Blinding Strike, Skill Focus: Intimidate, Thug might be options for either 'free' feats/abilities or part of the bonus feat list. Bonus feats might also include the shield bash line, for example.

[PaulImposteur]

Sorry, but replacing feats with SA progression is a no go. It would have more sneak dice than a rogue (16d6 in 30 levels vs. 15 for pure rogue) making a F18/R3/A9 far superior than any kind of 'true' rogue. I would probably go more with Thug being a Rogue kit that gains some HP and AB in exchange for losing some of the Roguish abilities.

It being a Rogue kit like that would be neat. We already have the 'cunning' and 'wise' Rogue archetypes. Figured some brute, low skill based Rogue would be a fun addition. I'm pretty sure other servers have something similar to what I proposed.

All of the Rogues on this server feel kind of 'the same'. A kit (or class) going a different direction would add some more variety.