Legion of Doom - Evil Think Tank

[Cult of the Dragon]

There's a new evil guild on the block!

[Babuguuscooties]

There's a new evil guild on the block!

Minsc is not impressed!

[Tekill]

The idea behind the LoD was to deal with a couple problems on the server.
1) One was that there were so many different evil factions, religions and individuals, that it kind of spread the number of players in each group too thin.
2)The "Saturday Morning Hero's" running around cramping the a decent villian's style. The slightest scrap of circumstantial evidence of evil, or the vaguest technical loophole to attack someone they know ooc to be evil instead of RPing with that player to find a good just resolution. But instead: Your evil, I shall murder you now. And if you somehow survive I shall see you shunned and exiled by all players - we will burn a big E on your forehead.
3) People ooc being critical of folks evil RP style. And the hypersensitvity to CvC and conflict RP. Something we can all pretty much agree is not easy in the first place to initiate. For example lets drop this lets drop this 'saturday morning' business and just refer to it, the heroes and villians alike, as bad RP. Its prejudging an entire alignment, and its not just an evil alignment thing to begin with. It takes a little time to pick up the nuances of how evil is best played on this server so cut us some slack.

So each evil faction religion or individual player do not have a lot of others around to plot and scheme with and at the same time do not have backup against thier enemies. A shortage of allies with no shortage of enemies. So having some sort of LoD concept was a way to tie together evil players that want to try and do the nearly impossible on this server, be evil.

Not every evil players has to like it. It just seemed like a good way to unite players together to play off each others schemes, to back each other up, and to just have a network for their plots. Like a glorified theives guild.

That was the logic behind the idea.

[Face]

when your toon gets outed as a evil player it gets hard but also realy fun rp wise.
Though you wil get chewed out by many players oocly especialy if you tend to pvp or get pvped alot.

BUT as a great man once said i bin chewed out before.
So i wil just keep rping my toons how i think they would act in our fantasy world.

PvP on this server is shunned by so many but its simply a part of the game and rp often calls for it.

[Steve]

So each evil faction religion or individual player do not have a lot of others around to plot and scheme with and at the same time do not have backup against thier enemies. A shortage of allies with no shortage of enemies. So having some sort of LoD concept was a way to tie together evil players that want to try and do the nearly impossible on this server, be evil.

Not every evil players has to like it. It just seemed like a good way to unite players together to play off each others schemes, to back each other up, and to just have a network for their plots. Like a glorified theives guild.

That was the logic behind the idea.

The logic stands and the idea is great, but does it work with the actual and particular Players?!?

From an IC standpoint, evils hate evils just as much. Allegiances are barely tenable, often through a common interest, but quickly dissolving once that commonality succeeds or fails...often failing, right?!

I mean, just take a look at Canon Lore, and the organizations that are (somewhat) relevant to the Sword Coast and/or especially Baldur's Gate: The Iron Throne (1356 DR), Knights of the Shield and the Rundeen.

The Iron Throne and Rundeen are at great odds with each other, classified as Enemies, as example. The Iron Throne is Enemies of the Zhentarim. Does this then mean the Rundeen and the Zhentarim are mates?!?! lol. At least, the Rundeen and the Knights of the Shield are allied. See? Evil is enemies of Evil, too.

But once you *maybe* get past the IC Forgotten Realms lore of things—something we should honestly be careful about changing or especially IGNORING!!— then you have to establish the OOC trust between Players. THAT seems the most challenging.

Maybe that is just my personal experience. And that is to say that it has been at best 50/50. What I do not understand, personally, is why the general idea of "let's have fun by joining forces and making Evil sing loud and proud," you so often get the answer of "buy my PC's RP is such that he would x or y or z with your toon and idea...." or "what does your PC and idea really have to offer mine?"

The idea that Evil should gain more possibilities to expand its Evil influence through joining forces in "good" will is pretty rewarding, both IC and OOC. Taking the "what can you offer me?" stance, is roadblocking—what IS on offer is help to generate RP.

Take more risks, people. Characters are tools, not gems.

Anyway, I still have an Evil Toon....

[Babuguuscooties]

It takes a little time to pick up the nuances of how evil is best played on this server so cut us some slack.

I apologize for my use of the term "saturday morning cartoons" to describe villains in the server. It's really not a fair generalization, and to be honest I don't even have any personal grievances with any players. My bad.

I agree, patience and perspective can be very useful tools in maintaining a cohesive server where we all feel welcome, and are able to at least try and contribute to the RP of the server.

Even if you're a two-timer! I know you play the goody Jeb and the baddie Te'kill jk man, you're cool.

BUT as a great man once said i bin chewed out before.

Who was this great man? Was it per chance the fabled "Elfminster of Rainsalotdale"? Or was it maybe Gandelf Greatrain?

[Face]

It takes a little time to pick up the nuances of how evil is best played on this server so cut us some slack.

I apologize for my use of the term "saturday morning cartoons" to describe villains in the server. It's really not a fair generalization, and to be honest I don't even have any personal grievances with any players. My bad.

I agree, patience and perspective can be very useful tools in maintaining a cohesive server where we all feel welcome, and are able to at least try and contribute to the RP of the server.

Even if you're a two-timer! I know you play the goody Jeb and the baddie Te'kill jk man, you're cool.

BUT as a great man once said i bin chewed out before.

Who was this great man? Was it per chance the fabled "Elfminster of Rainsalotdale"? Or was it maybe Gandelf Greatrain?

a player by the name of Mac.

[aaron22]

steve... i do not think you have this correct.

one thing you had correct is, it comes down to The Players. just like goodly or neutral RP. Evil rp requires its players to RP with depth and thoughtfulness in mind. Just like anyone.

But to say evil works against evil is just plain wrong. that is not how it works at all. not in RL and not in fantasy. evil works well with evil. why? because they know they share common goals. they share common foes and they share common reasons. this is the exact same reason why good works well together.

good and evil fall into the SAME issues that create a failure situation. too many cooks in the kitchen. too many chiefs and not enough grunts. poor or absent leadership. the ends failing to be worth the means. goals set too high or goals that are reliant upon things that YOU cannot control.

If you cannot RP evil in a way that would be prosperous in a group, then you are limiting your scope.

I do not have any amount of distrust in any of the players on this server. I do not know any of you IRL, so for me to pass that kind of judgement would require omnipotence. Not everyone will bring their best RP, so to judge upon that, could limit a future great RP experience.

The idea that Evil should gain more possibilities to expand its Evil influence through joining forces in "good" will is pretty rewarding, both IC and OOC. Taking the "what can you offer me?" stance, is roadblocking—what IS on offer is help to generate RP.

we all know this works. this is not what any of this is about. i would guess that ~20% of the good faction is evil playing alongside good and trying not to be "too" evil "too" often so to be ostracized. playing "evil" while accomplishing "good's" goals is not being evil at all. its being good with evil tendencies or neutral. most of these "evil" are actually playing Chaotic Neutral.

[Steve]

But to say evil works against evil is just plain wrong. that is not how it works at all. not in RL and not in fantasy. evil works well with evil. why? because they know they share common goals.

What I believe is that is how it SHOULD BE, but, lore and empirical experiences says different.

i would guess that ~20% of the good faction is evil playing alongside good and trying not to be "too" evil "too" often so to be ostracized. playing "evil" while accomplishing "good's" goals is not being evil at all. its being good with evil tendencies or neutral. most of these "evil" are actually playing Chaotic Neutral.

What I meant is that Evil groups join together in "good" will actions, as in, have "good" as in positive will to join forces. I can't seem to express this better! lol.

It is essentially Neutral, Lawful, Chaotic Evil beings deciding to work together...but that always comes down to a Player making that choice.

[Zyx]

The problem: I would have to take the feat faithful. Which is no problem, however if I was to touch the shadow weave I will make need to make a special app.

How is this a problem? A lot of shadow adepts around.

I also see a lot of level 30 characters around. Yet it is still a barrier to a lot of things.

[Deathgrowl]

The problem: I would have to take the feat faithful. Which is no problem, however if I was to touch the shadow weave I will make need to make a special app.

How is this a problem? A lot of shadow adepts around.

I also see a lot of level 30 characters around. Yet it is still a barrier to a lot of things.

Sorry, I don't follow. Did you make an application for Shadow Adept and get rejected?

[Sun Wukong]

You could say that there is some reasonable unwillingness to send applications to DMs on just about any NWN1 or NWN2 based server. More often than not these applications are handled behind closed doors and whoever is filling these applications might not have a single clue what exactly is required of them. It is rather silly to expect a blind man to jump through hoops suspended in mid air. Not to mention that there are servers where applications are accepted based on how 'buddy-buddy' you manage to be with the DMs.

Now, I used to have a quite large number of Shar worshipping characters. Then the Shadow Adept PRC was added and I have not played a single one since then. Not even when I kind of want to go for that Sorcerer/Bloodmagus/Archmage/Shadow Adept. Way back when that took place the DM kept insisting that application only classes were not handed out for 'power-building' purposes - and the big question is, why waste my time?

Not to mention that I had previously inquired about a possibility to make a Bard/Wizard (Divination)/Stormsinger/Red Wizard - all I got in response was how I would be treated a 'second class' red wizard in a stern tone - and with me saying that it would be just fine and dandy - I did not recieve a single PM back. It was read, but I never got a yes, nor a simple no back. (I was rejected, I suppose.)

So yeah, there are barriers, a multitude of them in fact.

[Young Werther]

I've wondered if anyone successfully got red wizard and shadow adept on the same toon ever.

[Zyx]

You could say that there is some reasonable unwillingness to send applications to DMs on just about any NWN1 or NWN2 based server. More often than not these applications are handled behind closed doors and whoever is filling these applications might not have a single clue what exactly is required of them. It is rather silly to expect a blind man to jump through hoops suspended in mid air. Not to mention that there are servers where applications are accepted based on how 'buddy-buddy' you manage to be with the DMs.

Now, I used to have a quite large number of Shar worshipping characters. Then the Shadow Adept PRC was added and I have not played a single one since then. Not even when I kind of want to go for that Sorcerer/Bloodmagus/Archmage/Shadow Adept. Way back when that took place the DM kept insisting that application only classes were not handed out for 'power-building' purposes - and the big question is, why waste my time?

Not to mention that I had previously inquired about a possibility to make a Bard/Wizard (Divination)/Stormsinger/Red Wizard - all I got in response was how I would be treated a 'second class' red wizard in a stern tone - and with me saying that it would be just fine and dandy - I did not recieve a single PM back. It was read, but I never got a yes, nor a simple no back. (I was rejected, I suppose.)

So yeah, there are barriers, a multitude of them in fact.

This is a nice summary of it. Like everyone else I have X hours in my day. Like the DMs I have many of those hours dealing with work, family, sleep, eating.

It has been mentioned the DM team has a lot on their plates (and this is a nice sized game) so getting to my background should I ever submit one might not be swift. Especially if it requires multiple approvals. So I am not inclined to take the time to write a background which may take 2-3 weeks to be approved, when my goal is to create some RP on the game. I would rather spend those 2-3 weeks doing something I enjoy.

[Cult of the Dragon]

I've wondered if anyone successfully got red wizard and shadow adept on the same toon ever.

They exist.