Upperdark

[Rinzler]

I just had an encounter where a dwarf was running right by me in Kro's Labrynth at the time I was doing a loot run. I attempted to speak with the individual, yelled "halt", and even chased him to Rock Run. The individual did not say one word - nothing.

I was genuinely curious why a dwarf was just running around by himself in Kro's Labrynth and he completely ignored every opportunity to RP.

It seems the individuals from the surface get every benefit of the Upperdark while experiencing none of the detriments and risks of Underdark RP. I had no intention of RPing hostility either but the dynamic of a surfacer going below the surface and the rules surrounding it should be discussed again.

It's incredibly frustrating that people are allowed entirely to just avoid RP as a PvP defense mechanism. And again, I had absolutely zero intention of PvP.

When the RP opportunities are as limited as they are in the Underdark and you experience what I just did it pisses me off, which I'm sure you can tell by the tone of this post.

I know it's an extremely sensitive subject but the Upperdark dynamic needs to be discussed, something to where it forces people to RP to avoid PvP, instead of the opposite which I just experienced.

[sweetlikesplenda]

Please stop the "Because it happened once, it happens all the time and is the same case for everyone" thing. That sort of thing happens all the time. Ive experienced it with Drow PCs that came to the surface. They walked passed and didn't acknowledge RP just the same as you just described.

On the flip side. My surface PC was down there recently and ran in to a Drow PC in the Upperdark tunnels. We stopped what we were doing, RP'd hostilities towards each other, got in to a little bit of a scuffle, all of which was RP'd out through rolls and text, no actual attacks (Per the Drow PC's request) and we had some fun of reacting to each other. So, please, stop with the "Every surfacer" thing that Underdark Players tend to go for. Suck it up as a loss of an RP chance, shrug your shoulders, and go kill a couple of mobs to blow off steam if it really bothers you that much.

[Rinzler]

Please stop the "Because it happened once, it happens all the time

Suck it up as a loss of an RP chance,

1. It's happened more than it hasn't in all my encounters with surfacers in the Underdark. It's much more convenient for them to ignore the presence of an Underdark PC than engage in dialogue.

2. I appreciate your empathy for Underdark PCs and their struggle to find consistent RP. How thoughtful of an individual you must be.

[Calodan]

Please stop the "Because it happened once, it happens all the time

Suck it up as a loss of an RP chance,

1. It's happened more than it hasn't in all my encounters with surfacers in the Underdark. It's much more convenient for them to ignore the presence of an Underdark PC than engage in dialogue.

2. I appreciate your empathy for Underdark PCs and their struggle to find consistent RP. How thoughtful of an individual you must be.

The point being you can not rule lawyer people into interacting with you.

That person was under no obligation to interact with you at all. Nor should they be.

[Rinzler]

The point being you can not rule lawyer people into interacting with you.

That person was under no obligation to interact with you at all. Nor should they be.

A surfacer doesn't have to acknowledge the presence of a Drow in the Under/Upper dark? That is ridiculous! That was the entire purpose of my post. Surfacers get to come down and take advantage of every OOC rule while those in the Underdark are refrained from role-playing their character sheet. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Someone from the surface goes below and can just pretend Drow don't exist to avoid conflict is absurd. There needs to be an element of fear and uncertainty when going below.

[Tsidkenu]

Upperdark should be No RP out pvp zone for surfacers grinding down there. The (obvious) benefits of the place should come with a risk. The darkness is drow territory. If a drow raiding band wants to capture some slaves/whatever, then they should be able to do it without this 'rules lawyering'. The converse should -not- apply; surface races must give an RP out to drow RPing/grinding in Upperdark zones.

How it ended up the way it is now is utterly beyond me. Unfortunately these are merely my opinions and nothing is likely to change any time soon.

[Planehopper]

Players ignore players often. Not just in the Upper/Underdark. Not just surfacers. The RP climate here needs a 'cultural shift' as the HR folks of the business world might say. There is rich RP in stints and starts, I dont want to take away from a lot of great RP that some folks here are involved in, but an openness and/or willingness to RP at all times is severely lacking.

"I am on a loot run"
"I just want to finish this quest"

These things are only acceptable because the player base, over time, has shifted toward a mechanics/levelling paradigm and away from an immersive RP paradigm. It will take a sustained effort (and a desire, most of all) to change back to a point where this was frowned upon.

Until then, you won't get a lot of sympathy, because a lot of the people here have done similar things. My personal opinion, anyway.

[Rinzler]

Upperdark should be No RP out pvp zone for surfacers grinding down there. The (obvious) benefits of the place should come with a risk. The darkness is drow territory.

+1 Million

[Tekill]

My Svirv also had a non encounter with a dwarf near Rockrun the other day. He was just buzzing around real fast. Just ran right past me like I wasnt there. He was either a monk or was hasted, or something. I was not upset because at the time I thought it was pretty funny watching this stubby legged dwarf zoom past zig-zagging around leaving me in the dust.

This kind of thing happens on the surfact all the time but the difference is, in the UD you are probably the only two players there. On the suface for every one person that zooms past you there is two that will at least give a nod. Its much more noticable when your the only ones down there.
Feels like your being snubbed a bit.
I know I must have run past folk a time or two on the suface, but I usually try to slow to a walk and try some sort of greeting. In the UD though I definately stop to talk, either to be friendly or hostile.

There's also the ancient 'dont run' rule on this game. The idea being that folk dont usually run everywhere they go so realistically they would walk. Myself, I tend to run places when nobody is looking. If we are talking realistically then in that case, we should all have mounts - so a bit of running now and again makes up for no horses.

I think the Upperdark being open to surfacers was meant to create an opportunity to bridge the surface players to the UD players a bit more. Make it so the UD is not so cut off. I thought it was meant create RP opportunities I think. The surfacers can link themselves to Rockrun and the not so wicked deep gnomes. I suppose it could be interpreted as being unfair. If the surface has access to an upper dark why doesnt the underdark have access to a....lower light? Under-surface? Upper-basement?

I like running into Surfacers in the upper-dark.

I lost my train of thought- whats my point?
It seems the goal of the game more often than not is to run around, experience or loot grinding vainly trying to get to level 30 so that we can then just stand around posing in our 4th teir magic gear.
I have deja vu suddenly...this has all been said before.
Yes a Culture Shift is needed.

[Babuguuscooties]

Upperdark should be No RP out pvp zone for surfacers grinding down there. The (obvious) benefits of the place should come with a risk. The darkness is drow territory.

+1 Million

Look if you've seen me in-game you know I almost never shy away from roleplay. However, as someone who at times has a schedule that doesn't allow for much time in-game I can relate to just wanting to grind out a half-hour before work. I don't have an issue with people wanting to grind, or quest. Especially questing because its literally like what, once a week and month? We all have different schedules, and I don't think it's any better to force people to have to stop and RP with you if they only have 20 minutes to log in.


That being said, I also don't personally think just running passed someone (especially if they are trying to rp with you) is polite. You could at least take a second to say IC that you're in a hurry, or somesuch. Heck, even a quick PM could at least let the person know you acknowledge them, and that you just don't have time.


Regardless, I think the tone in this thread has been pretty aggressive. It's clearly a point of contention among the player-base to some degree. Let's just try and continue to have a discussion and see differing viewpoints where possible.


To that point, I agree with Tsidkenu. I feel like the Upperdark should be dangerous, particularly when meeting UD characters as a surfacer. That being said, I don't think that surfacers should be able to ignore PVP rules down there at all. Not even if they are fighting other surfacers. Lastly, and this is where I have reservations: I am a little hesitant, because I don't know enough about the UD. If such a rule were made would level 20+ drow just stalk the lower level Upperdark areas in order to prey on lower level characters? You may say "So what?" to that, but I think we all know it will just lead to OOC drama if its the case. The server doesn't need more of that. After-all, this is not a hardcore server.

[professiondude]

Please stop the "Because it happened once, it happens all the time and is the same case for everyone" thing. That sort of thing happens all the time. Ive experienced it with Drow PCs that came to the surface. They walked passed and didn't acknowledge RP just the same as you just described.

On the flip side. My surface PC was down there recently and ran in to a Drow PC in the Upperdark tunnels. We stopped what we were doing, RP'd hostilities towards each other, got in to a little bit of a scuffle, all of which was RP'd out through rolls and text, no actual attacks (Per the Drow PC's request) and we had some fun of reacting to each other. So, please, stop with the "Every surfacer" thing that Underdark Players tend to go for. Suck it up as a loss of an RP chance, shrug your shoulders, and go kill a couple of mobs to blow off steam if it really bothers you that much.

Darling i've had Multiple experiences JUST like this. I too have been angered by all the effort i put in to have great RP with surfacers in the UPD but they just ignore it or log off..It's disheartening to even view them as part of A "RP Server" when all they do is ignore those who potentially pose a IC threat to them.

We need a rule that punishes those who fail to rp when a opportunity presents itself.

[Valefort]

Keep reporting them until they're dealt with.

[Nemni]

I don't think that surfacers should be able to ignore PVP rules down there at all.

What do you mean? No one is allowed to ignore rules. Only thing different with the upperdark is that everyone follows the same rules. Which is a good thing imo, as it leads to more interaction.

We need a rule that punishes those who fail to rp when a opportunity presents itself.

Please, no more arbitrary hard to enforce rules.

[Wolfrayne]

Keep reporting them until they're dealt with.

I do and dont agree with this, I understand the need to not "Police" people but the DM's have their hands full as it is dealing with every little thing. I think as players and mostly Mature adults (i use the term mature lightly here) We are all capable of showing MANNERS at the very least.

These last couple of months i have seen more people doing the following things that in my previous 5 or so years here

- Ignoring RP for loot.
- People waling around FAI/BG with weapons/Pets
- Open Hostility within NPC veiw (Godmodding)
- Underdark and Surfacers each refusing to acknowledge one another.

Perhaps if every now and then the DM's could maybe shout out and say 'hey Guys please be sure to check the rules and make sure you are up to date" or something like that might prompt new people and some old people to have another look. (Nobody reads the loading screens they aren't open long enough)

Upperdark/Underdark is supposed to be the place of nightmares for any surface dweller, its a place you DONT travel alone and even if you do travel as a group you take every precaution possible because MOST people never come back.

There are many different cultures of people on the server and i don't just mean Americans/Europeans/Australians etc i mean different cultures of GAMERS as well. Many of us have been here a long time but i think many people also forget or get a bit lax when it comes to things. We all have days where we just want to "do a quick loot run" or "Finish a quest" but we aren't the only ones playing here.

It is better to educate people than punish them with reports and such in my opinion. It sets a much better grounds for the future. If you stop to explain things to people (and yes it can be hard for some of us who know better) It not only sets a good example but gives the DM's more free time to assist with other matters no?

This isn't just an RP Server, it's a community.

[Babuguuscooties]

These last couple of months i have seen more people doing the following things that in my previous 5 or so years here

- Ignoring RP for loot.
- People waling around FAI/BG with weapons/Pets
- Open Hostility within NPC veiw (Godmodding)
- Underdark and Surfacers each refusing to acknowledge one another.
- Casting all their buffs as soon as they spawn at the FAI while others nearby are trying to RP

Fixed that for ya, Wolfrayne.


I'm just giving you a hard time though, really. It doesn't bug me.

I wholeheartedly agree with you that this is a community, and one that I am quite happy to be a part of so far (give it time, I know ).

Valefort is right though, since the person who did the actual ignoring in the first place likely isn't going to take part in this discussion. Basically, we're preaching to the choir here. The best thing to be done in-game is to take screenshots and send them to the staff. We are fortunate in this server that we have a pretty fantastic amount of players. I admit to not fully grasping how desolate the UD must feel, but if the person ignored you like that you may not have enjoyed RPing with them to begin with. I would do my best not to let it frustrate you, OP. <3