Upperdark

[Face]

Let UD players go to the surface to rp/explore/loot and grind some.
100% sure we wil find more rp that way.(Like it was the case in the upperdark when that just came out)

I think the only way it would work if the drow remain KoS (possibly with a permastrike) but are allowed to explore. And if light blindness is implemented. (I think it is implemented, right?)
Likewise the same thing would apply to surfacers in UD.

Otherwise it will lead to more hugs and lore-breaking behavior.

Honestly, it reminds me of another thread where people were complaining about bears in the cities. Might end up with drow instead of bears this way.

Yeah sounds fun.

[Rinzler]

KoS both ways would be the most lore-appropriate. You'd have to do a great deal of planning and preparation if you're going to go to the other side. Diplomacy and rights of safe passage could become something that was RP'ed. It'd encourage surface guild leaders to contact the Conclave concerning renegade Drow - and actually give the Conclave and the Schools of Magic something to do.

In fact, it'd increase tension among the Drow as well. All this talk about trade routes in the meta plot but nothing ever comes of it. There should be political conflict of Drow vs. Drow as well, and the safe passage of surface PCs could fan the flames.

[NegInfinity]

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Yeah sounds fun.

Well... yeah. And if in addition to KoS + possible permastrike (if you're caught and/or killed) + maybe if guards had scripts against duergar/drow trying to openly pass through a city unmasked. Meaning instant arrest/imprisonment with DM report. Or something. The script can be possibly extended to handle bears too.

This MAYBE would work out.

Either way I think this idea might be onto something and at this point it would be the best if devs/dms chimed in.

Basically, what I don't wanna see is more drow huggers and lore-breaking behavior ("I'm a drow and I wanna talk about LOOOOOVE!"). I mean... first time when I finally made it to the UD it was a damn big deal. Mysterious atmosphere, full of danger, etc.

If there's nothing lore-breaking going on, and the other side knows the high risks of trying to raid a surface boss... I don't see much to object to. It is their funeral.

The only possible problem is that it might lead to OOC drama and accusations of metagaming. But that's it, and that's mostly drow player's concern.

[Babuguuscooties]

My concerns after reading everything up to this point:

1) If UD races are allowed to go to the surface once more will they be able to PVP on sight, or will they just be KoS? The distinction is important. My concern here is for new and low level characters. I know there are causalities irl, but no player should be subjected to an impossible situation when they are just walking down the road to the FAI. Just my opinion. I have a level 21 wiz, so this isn't my personal concern. I am open to PVP if it happens, but I don't want to see newbies getting abused.

2) Upperdark PVP is fine, but will it be KoS both ways, or will it be the opposite of the surface? Will UD characters be able to initiate PVP without RP, but not vise versa? Just curious. I think it would be fair to do so.

3) Lastly, let me just say that this is a game first and foremost. Try not to take things too seriously because RP is for fun. It's not a way of life despite the jokes that will follow

[Face]

We wont know till we try.
And before some one says it has bin tried before...From what i heard that was a long long time ago so i say we give it a 'new' try and see where it gows.

[Valefort]

That's the good-evil distribution for Drows, drow huggers beware !

Other than that as far as I'm concerned as a player drows on the surface seem so commonplace it lost its appeal, I much prefered pre-Upperdark and even pre-teleport situation where going from one side to another was actually very hard and a big deal. Scarce surface/UD interactions made them interesting, those are two worlds that should have little to do with each other.

[chad878262]

Drow should be more like 1% 'good' aligned. 10% is really high, but I suppose 'Adventurers'... Still seems very high.

[NegInfinity]

My concerns after reading everything up to this point:

1) If UD races are allowed to go to the surface once more will they be able to PVP on sight, or will they just be KoS? The distinction is important. My concern here is for new and low level characters. I know there are causalities irl, but no player should be subjected to an impossible situation when they are just walking down the road to the FAI. Just my opinion. I have a level 21 wiz, so this isn't my personal concern. I am open to PVP if it happens, but I don't want to see newbies getting abused.

As a low level character you will be murdered by the normal enemies before you reach the surface and have a chance of facing a PC. Rules for KoS are outlined in PVP section, read them.

For a low-level PC It is entirely possible to get killed while going from BG to FAI unprepared, by the way.

3) Lastly, let me just say that this is a game first and foremost. Try not to take things too seriously because RP is for fun. It's not a way of life despite the jokes that will follow

There should be consequences for picking and evil race and going where you don't belong. If the supposedly-roleplaying game is consequence-free, there's no point in playing it.

Drow should be more like 1% 'good' aligned. 10% is really high, but I suppose 'Adventurers'... Still seems very high.

0.1%, I'd say. 1% is way too high.

[AlfarinIcebreaker]

Upperdark should be No RP out pvp zone for surfacers grinding down there. The (obvious) benefits of the place should come with a risk. The darkness is drow territory. If a drow raiding band wants to capture some slaves/whatever, then they should be able to do it without this 'rules lawyering'. The converse should -not- apply; surface races must give an RP out to drow RPing/grinding in Upperdark zones.

How it ended up the way it is now is utterly beyond me. Unfortunately these are merely my opinions and nothing is likely to change any time soon.

This.

[Babuguuscooties]

For a low-level PC It is entirely possible to get killed while going from BG to FAI unprepared, by the way.

Sure, but I'm not talking about level 1-3. I was just highlighting the fact that while some pvp interactions (yes, even the ones you lose!) can be fun, it does take some of the fun out of it if you're constantly facing epic drow raiders on your level 5 whose just walking from BG to FAI. Like you said, going to the Upperdark should be dangerous. It should more dangerous than say... Walking from BG to FAI, for instance.

There should be consequences for picking and evil race and going where you don't belong. If the supposedly-roleplaying game is consequence-free, there's no point in playing it.

I don't see what that has to do with what I said. I just said don't get OOCly upset to the point that it frustrates you. It is just a game, regardless of any other factors. At the end of the day what's fun to you may not be what's fun to someone else. That, I presume, is why we have DMs and rules. If someone is breaking a rule then we have the ability to report them via screenshots and PMs. If someone isn't breaking a rule we can try and change that, but we won't always get our way.

This server is the most popular server (next to maybe those ERP servers?). The only hardcore servers on the list I can find are empty. I personally don't mind PVP or some hardcore elements, but I'm not everyone. I'm also speaking from the position of maining a level 21 wizard. Perspective matters since a new player with a level 4-5 character who has 0 interest in PVP getting clobbered by a drow on their way to FAI sounds more like abuse than anything "fun". Idk, it may be fun for the drow to insta-kill the newbie in this example scenario, but I wouldn't even think that would be all that fun. I feel like im stating the obvious so I'll just end this

[NegInfinity]

I don't see what that has to do with what I said.

You said that PC shouldn't be subjected to an impossible situation.
What I said is that a PC should be subjected to an impossible situation as a result of their actions.
If you're a drow who walks into BG unmasked and say "hi" to a flaming fist patrolman, whatever happens afterwards, you had it coming.

Speaking of walking to FAI, once upon a time, my character woke up in FAI, walked outside and had a dragon land on them. This kind of thing happens. Likewise, you totally can bump into a paladin patrol armed and warded to the teeth after finally reaching surface for the first time.

Hurt feelings, IMO, happen, when people try too hard to make the game about them or their character. Seen it several times when somebody tries to make an impossibly cool char, get beaten up and get upset.

Also, level 21 is not a low level. It is an epic level character.

a new player with a level 4-5 character who has 0 interest in PVP getting clobbered by a drow on their way to FAI sounds more like abuse than anything "fun".

Perhaps when YOU are KoS it doesn't mean that you have a license to attack anything that moves and should follow PVP rules? This is something worth thinking about.

[Rinzler]

There should be consequences for picking and evil race and going where you don't belong. .

Now apply that same logic to a surface PC in the upperdark.

[NegInfinity]

There should be consequences for picking and evil race and going where you don't belong. .

Now apply that same logic to a surface PC in the upperdark.

No. Unless DMs change policy, I'll treat the area as described in PvP rules. Which means that for surfaces KoS area are the ones that are "Underdark"

[Rinzler]

There should be consequences for picking and evil race and going where you don't belong. .

Now apply that same logic to a surface PC in the upperdark.

No. Unless DMs change policy, I'll treat the area as described in PvP rules.

Oh so evil players on the surface should have consequences but surface players beneath the surface shouldn't? Do you not see the double standard?

[NegInfinity]

Oh so evil players on the surface should have consequences but surface players beneath the surface shouldn't? Do you not see the double standard?

False dichotomy, no double standard, incorrect assumption about alignments.
Surfacers are KoS in Underdark. Underark players are KoS on surface. Upper dark is neutral for both. This looks fair enough to me.