Pale Master Question

[Zyx]

I am making (made) a character to be active n the Underdark. I planned out his build, some RP hooks, and was ready to get him going, except he is not able to really get going.

The guilds I was looking at were Cult of the Dragon as well as the School of Necromancy. Play up some of the Underdark themes especially as there is not a great deal of RP to be found there.

This server has a nice casting progression Dragon Disciple class (could just rename it to Dragonsoul Heir) and it was a natural fit for a Cult of the Dragon sorc. Turning them to undead creatures seemed like a great fit, plus the main city has a School of Necromancy. So may as well grab that as well.

It turns out however my character is not able to be both. The power of being a Half Dragon will have to be enough for him as slowly seeking to become immortal (via Pale Master) is not allowed. I am curious is there any reason for this?

Yes both classes give a few points of natural AC, however on this server Dragon Disciple is not a melee class (low BAB). I did manage to move things around to be more mage like, still not being able to go full fledged Necromancer in the only place that is not an issue, kinda stings.

[Steve]

... as slowly seeking to become immortal (via Pale Master) is not allowed. I am curious is there any reason for this?

May I ask: why do you think this is true?

[aaron22]

all of us are immortal...

myrkul has really bad book keeping skills.

[Sun Wukong]

You do not need BAB to be a powerful arcane caster, all you need is high enough base AC to turn concealment and mirror images into something that is next to impossible to penetrate.

A Pale Master is a 6/10 spellcasting progression class, a Dragon Disciple is a 7/10 spellcasting progression class, and together those produce less than ideal caster level. However, such a build combination would also have critical hit immunity, +9 natural armor that stacks with natural armor from Spider Skin or Shadowshield. Therefore you are basically wearing a fullplate without having one and you do not exactly have a cap on your maximum dexterity bonus either. Therefore you are looking at that very high base AC without temporary limitations such as with the Divine Shield, or high feat investment that come with acquiring armor Proficiencies and Automatic: Still Spell feats. Not to mention that caster level doesn't really help against the Breach spell lists anyhow.

Therefore, a build such as Sorcerer 10/Pale Master 10/Dragon Disciple 10 would have caster level of 27, and thanks to the +2 Charisma from Dragon Disciple you basically got two extra epic feats on Great Charisma that a similar build would not otherwise have. Yes, going for another kind of build would let you have higher spell DCs, but the points is, a "Sorcerer 10/Pale Master 10/Dragon Disciple 10" would be able to just tank it out until their spells work.

If you want some necromancer PRCs for your character, there are things like Blood Magus, and Shadow Adept. Also, being a sorcerer, I am not sure how well your character would fit into Wizard supremacy based city of Sshamaththsz... and its Schools of Wizardry. But then again, I haven't really kept an eye on the Underdark.

Thus... Pale Master/Dragon Disciple ban... its due to high AC potential. Nothing more, nothing less. Perhaps someone might have been little annoyed about some Draco Lich Disciples running around, but it is the AC potential.


Oh: I am not a member of the staff or the QC, or the devs, or the edmins, or the forum mods... But I do like number puzzles to some extend and Pale Master/Dragon Disciple just brings out a pretty high AC potential.

Sadly you cannot make a "Sorcerer 6/Pale Master 10/Dragon Disciple 10/Arch Mage 4" because you cannot qualify for Archmage without butting heads with the 3 by 20 rule. But you could just use Bloodmagus to get +1 caster level and have 28, or perhaps Arcane Scholar for Improved Empower Spell.

[Rinzler]

This probably belongs in the character building sub-forum but a couple of things:

1. You should play what sounds most fun. I only say that because my following points have a bit of constructive criticism and I don't want to deter you from playing what YOU want to play.

2. As Sun Wukong mentioned, S'shamath is a city of Wizards. That doesn't mean sorcerers aren't welcome, but wizards are supposed to beheld in higher esteem. That being said, on BG they're really not. You can join a School of Magic as a sorcerer but I imagine you won't grow in rank much. The Schools are hardly active anyways, so if you want to be a sorcerer, be one.

3. You're a bit of a jack of all trades. As a pure caster you really want to try and be at least CL 30, if not 32. If you choose to go the route of a gish, then the CL is less important but you probably need to diversify your multiclass.

[mrm3ntalist]

Mechanically it is mostly the AC. You dont need to go the full 10PM levels. Just 4 are enough since DS10 gives the sleep/paralysis immunity, missing only the crit immunity - though with that much AC potential and the arcane defensive spells, you are basically crit immune ( immune from physical attacks i would add ) when prepared. Thats +8AC that stacks with everything and 29CL.

[Zyx]

For me I am not a number cruncher. I just got with what is fun. So 10 level pale master working to blur the line of life and death. I am in it for the RP. I will never be the most powerful that way, but I play for fun (and being somewhat useful in my party).

So it does seem it is about the AC then.

Note: I am going blood magus archmage instead. I should have all the feats and level requirements for it.

[Blackman D]

yea a base 20 AC is a bit much, tho feel free to ping me about the school of necromancy and cult of the dragon part

but yea no dracolich disciples

[NegInfinity]

It turns out however my character is not able to be both. The power of being a Half Dragon will have to be enough for him as slowly seeking to become immortal (via Pale Master) is not allowed. I am curious is there any reason for this?

Pale masters are mortal. Your character might not be aware of this, though.

Deathless Mastery (Ex): On reaching 10th level, a pale master gains the virtues of his deathless arts. His body becomes partly mummifi ed (though he is not truly undead), and he becomes immune to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, death effects, critical hits, ability drain, and energy drain, as well as damage to his physical ability scores (Str, Dex, and Con). He still needs to breathe, eat, and sleep as normal for his type, and he still ages normally.

[Zyx]

It turns out however my character is not able to be both. The power of being a Half Dragon will have to be enough for him as slowly seeking to become immortal (via Pale Master) is not allowed. I am curious is there any reason for this?

Pale masters are mortal. Your character might not be aware of this, though.

Deathless Mastery (Ex): On reaching 10th level, a pale master gains the virtues of his deathless arts. His body becomes partly mummifi ed (though he is not truly undead), and he becomes immune to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, death effects, critical hits, ability drain, and energy drain, as well as damage to his physical ability scores (Str, Dex, and Con). He still needs to breathe, eat, and sleep as normal for his type, and he still ages normally.

I know it is a big surprise on a RP server, however character have RP goals. Now a person may likely assume that a PC that is grafting undead body parts onto their bodies is working on becoming fully undead.

Of course we can take all the RP out of it and turn it into mechanics and say. You know what I am dipping thee levels for some stats, to the abyss with RP I am here to grind monsters, get big numbers. So lets take the RP out of the game.

If you are one of those people. This thread is not for you. It was talking about RP goals and not mechanics.

[Zyx]

yea a base 20 AC is a bit much, tho feel free to ping me about the school of necromancy and cult of the dragon part

but yea no dracolich disciples

Not interested. I like to play what I want rather then what someone else wants me to play. I choose fun.

[Blackman D]

what are you talkin about?

The guilds I was looking at were Cult of the Dragon as well as the School of Necromancy.

those are your words not mine

the draco comment was in reference to DD/PM not being allowed

[Zyx]

what are you talkin about?

The guilds I was looking at were Cult of the Dragon as well as the School of Necromancy.

those are your words not mine

the draco comment was in reference to DD/PM not being allowed

I was talking about exactly what I quoted.

In short as you want to do this on the board.

You run a guild. A guild which earlier on this thread people say is not active. In other PMs people mentioned it is not active. You see someone who wants to be active. Do you send that person a PM and say: Hey I see you are interested in creating some fun. You mentioned building a character around the theme here is how we can have some fun together?

Nope. Instead I get on you are interested in playing, toss me a PM. HARHARHAR no draco liches. I am not interested in joining. I will make my own fun instead as I have been doing. The school could be the greatest guild in the world, however it does not seem like I will be having fun there. I choose fun.

Good luck with your guild.

[mrm3ntalist]

wow... imagine what would happen if someone was actually being disrespectful here...

[chad878262]

Zyx, as a member of QC BMD was giving you a response as you why pale master and dragon disciple classes are not allowed in the same build. He was then inviting you to reach out if interested in joining the very guilds you expressed interest in. There was nothing in his post with a "harhar" attitude. Enjoy your rp, but i doubt you find much if you respond to information the way you did here... unless it's fun for you to troll the forums for information and then bash someone who provides it.