Traps, Poisons and other "evil" things?

[chad878262]

What annoys me is that poisons are very rarely used in PvE, you don't need them against regular mobs (or if you do you have issues ..) and bosses have sky high saves (thanks to casters, thank you casters ....).

Is it possible for PvE bosses to have saves vs. spells bonuses? If the issue is sky high saves due to casters, then lower the saves to reasonable levels for the CR and then give them bonuses to saves vs. spells. I know I have dozens of DC 24-30 poisons in storage and on various PC's, but rarely use them because they don't work on bosses and using them on mobs would get quite expensive or all my poisons would be gone pretty quick. If there was a ~33% chance of working on a boss I would use them quite often. Especially nice to use CHA poison against FGK, INT poison against Yuan-Ti Queen, STR and/or CON poison on Fire Giant Chief. However, as you said, pointless because they have to roll a 1, which is only worth it if you can force many saves. I rarely use my +3 weapon with on hit blinding because it is only 5% with a DC14 because it doesn't happen enough to be worth the effort. However, if it was like that quarterstaff that has on hit blinding 25% of the time I would use it all the time! 7 APR means forcing a save 1 or 2 times per round so over the course of time many enemies would be blinded, which is a death sentence. I actually do use the DC 20 / 21 blinding poisons because 3 saves is 3 chances to roll a 1 and they're somewhat inexpensive to use.

[Calodan]

Look I bought a bunch of poison and here are the issues. You have to target yourself to apply it. Instead of it being a auto apply to weapon when used through tabs. This is clunky and makes fighting with poisons virtually useless for melee. Secondly any epic monsters are often immune or have high saves making that poison useless. Thirdly they are expensive as hell for the people who could use them effectively for a time. I.E. level 1-15 but affording enough poisons to use in adventure at close 250-500 gold a potion is just not feasible for new players without twinking them.

Please stop telling us it is delicious terds. It is not. Poison system is useless if it were not people would use it more often they do not. Poisons need to be widespread and cheap at least if you are not going to give us a way to up DCs for HIGH FORT that will make the real poisons effective. Also stop shafting the blunt weapons and give us some choices like piercing and slashing. There are 4 effing poisons for blunt....4.....this is BS. Straight up.

[aaron22]

well the not being used therefore must be useless argument is not really solid. in the OP he also mentioned traps and traps can be very helpful. its kind of slow moving, but trap laying can really make a huge difference in PvE. it's not used often, but it is far from useless.

[Calodan]

well the not being used therefore must be useless argument is not really solid. in the OP he also mentioned traps and traps can be very helpful. its kind of slow moving, but trap laying can really make a huge difference in PvE. it's not used often, but it is far from useless.

You can trap stack and kite monsters into them so yeah traps are useful. You can not poison stack and make them roll 3 or more saves in one hit. Agreed that traps are far from useless. Poisons are useless.

[chad878262]

Well, what you can do as an Assassin or Blackguard or PC who has taken the Poison Feat is to poison your weapons right before a battle (lasts 10 rounds). If attacking from Stealth the assassin is forcing ~4 saves from death attack + ~3 saves because poison applied lasts for 3 hits. That is forcing 7 saves in one round, which is pretty darn good. DC on Assassins death attack is only ~20-26 for most so if you are also using a DC26-30 poison there is a pretty good chance the enemy is either paralyzed (death sentence) or effected with the poison. If you're lucky enough to also have a weapon with a nice property (wounding is nice and all, but blinding, stun, sleep are all better) you can really stack up the save or X to put enemies in a bad situation.

The issue is that none of the effects help with bosses, regardless because they are immune to most. However, if you are stalking another PC these things in concert can make it very difficult for any PC to make so many saving throws so as not to have some kind of nasty effect. All of these are somewhat easy to defend against though and it would simply be nice if these things were more useful in PvE.

[Valefort]

well the not being used therefore must be useless argument is not really solid. in the OP he also mentioned traps and traps can be very helpful. its kind of slow moving, but trap laying can really make a huge difference in PvE. it's not used often, but it is far from useless.

You can trap stack and kite monsters into them so yeah traps are useful. You can not poison stack and make them roll 3 or more saves in one hit. Agreed that traps are far from useless. Poisons are useless.

Sure you can .. assassin with on hit weapons and poison.

[Steve]

Please stop telling us it is delicious terds. It is not. Poison system is useless if it were not people would use it more often they do not. Poisons need to be widespread and cheap at least if you are not going to give us a way to up DCs for HIGH FORT that will make the real poisons effective. Also stop shafting the blunt weapons and give us some choices like piercing and slashing. There are 4 effing poisons for blunt....4.....this is BS. Straight up.

I used poisons ALL THE TIME, then the system was broken for like a year, then it was fixed...but I RCR'd that toon.

Look, there are 30 DC poisons, with 2 effects. That is 3x 30 DC save. If you use the right poison, it will benefit your toon.

I think this is simple a L2P issue.

[Calodan]

well the not being used therefore must be useless argument is not really solid. in the OP he also mentioned traps and traps can be very helpful. its kind of slow moving, but trap laying can really make a huge difference in PvE. it's not used often, but it is far from useless.

You can trap stack and kite monsters into them so yeah traps are useful. You can not poison stack and make them roll 3 or more saves in one hit. Agreed that traps are far from useless. Poisons are useless.

Sure you can .. assassin with on hit weapons and poison.

I would fire you but for one I do not run this biatch. For two I like you....Nice one though!

I stand by my statement on poisons. That does not mean I do not like you Vale or the server admin. I just have a opinion that differs from you all on this one.

Please stop telling us it is delicious terds. It is not. Poison system is useless if it were not people would use it more often they do not. Poisons need to be widespread and cheap at least if you are not going to give us a way to up DCs for HIGH FORT that will make the real poisons effective. Also stop shafting the blunt weapons and give us some choices like piercing and slashing. There are 4 effing poisons for blunt....4.....this is BS. Straight up.

I used poisons ALL THE TIME, then the system was broken for like a year, then it was fixed...but I RCR'd that toon.

Look, there are 30 DC poisons, with 2 effects. That is 3x 30 DC save. If you use the right poison, it will benefit your toon.

I think this is simple a L2P issue.

Like your inability to find loot? I think that is a L2P issue too.....

Been here a few years myself Steve. Not a dummy can build and use the gears and stuffs for this server quite well thank you. Stand by my statement just like you do with the loot. Better L2P noob......

[Face]

When poisons used to presist past server resets i used them plenty.
Now that they only last so short i never use them as its rather bad to go out of stealth to use the poison hell it even turns of rappid fire.

[Valefort]

It's fine, your opinion is just not backed by facts Calodan. PTWF assassin with on hit weapons and poisons will make targets roll so many saves they're bound to fail .. creatures also do not have super high fortitude.

I think giving poisons something like 5-10 applications per vial instead of 1 might be enough.

[Fury_US]

Steve and Calodan, keep it civil, please? I don't want to see this thread closed just yet.

The duration is my single most primary issue with poisons there are some really nice ones out there, but the problem is lack of time to prepare to use them. If I could coat a weapon etc and just have the damn thing last until used or server resets? It would make an enormous difference for me. Sure I could grumble about server resets because of crashes, but I'm willing to give a little.

Edit to reflect Valeforts reply: multiple applications won't really help. IMO. It just means I have multiple opportunities to not use something. One use, increased duration would be fine, and the best way to solve the problem.

[Valefort]

Making them last long is pretty useless except for PvP though, my idea is to have them being used in PvE.

[chad878262]

I think giving poisons something like 5-10 applications per vial instead of 1 might be enough.

Would be nice to have 5 application per vial and have the poison feat make them last for 1 hour (instead of 1 minute) or 3 hits, whichever comes first. This would allow you to apply a poison and have your weapon poisoned for RP purposes without having it wear off before getting a chance to use it. Doesn't need to persist through reset IMO, especially if a vial has 5 applications, but the 1 minute duration before it wears off is really limiting for anything other than applying, stealth, stalk, strike. If it could be applied without breaking stealth this wouldn't be an issue, but since it can't, giving it a longer sticking time to the weapon would be a good middle ground.

Edit: I disagree that the long duration is PvP only... I like to adventure in a group, so we are not running from one mob to the next, we are walking through a dungeon pretty slowly. It'd be sweet if my poisons lasted long enough to support this, but for right now they don't. They only support OOC style of apply, stealth, strike without being able to RP with others, emoting the application, walking through the dungeon you may not actually use it for several minutes. If an hour is too long because of PvP issues even having it last ~10 minutes would be enough to allow for group RP while using poisons.

[Fury_US]

I agree with longer duration being immensely helpful in PvE, because as a stealther, I'm already screwed on a run. Either it's RPd and poisons are done with before you get to anything, or my primary experience is that everyone just barrels through and pummels crap while I am still two rooms back trying to catch up due to stealth being so slow. In that scenario, what the hell is the point of wasting a costly poison that's gone before I can even use it?

You know, a great solution would be a feat: Poison Expertise or something like that. Assassins and BG get it at their last level, or you can take it. Increased duration of poisons.

[NegInfinity]

Would be nice to have 5 application per vial and have the poison feat make them last for 1 hour (instead of 1 minute) or 3 hits, whichever comes first.

One hour is 15 minutes, I believe.

Why not make it last a full day, though? I'd love something like that, even if it lasts for 3 hits. Might make a good weapon for "special purposes", like a poisoned dagger for special occasions.