Dynamic CR scaling on spawns questions

[aaron22]

Yes keep it "fairly" unknown so that we can have fun with the new excitement

[dedude]

doesn't that just mean that people that struggle with CR can simply go to a lower level area that scales up as appropriate? Doesn't sound like a huge loss.

Bingo. This is what people fail to realize. This may push a little to which areas are good to adventure in for a given level PC, but that just means that a lower CR area will now be the better place to go. All in all, every PC level will now have more areas with a CR that fit their level.

Would be nice if the loot dropped was reflected by CR increase though.

This may come later, but the actual CR number on the creature is based on the blueprint, so it doesn't happen automatically.

Also Random-name generator for bosses?

That is absolutely on one of my post-its. Other game features are in the pipeline that could use that.

There will be a warning/notice if you enter an area where spawns are already active with an increased CR.

[dedude]

Let's please not try and make this too mechanically determined and well understood, thus, we return to the same system as before. KEEP IT DANGEROUS!!!

Yeah that is a really hard balancing act!

It is based on the party of the lowest level PC in the area, so with a lvl 30 and lvl 1 in same area, it would be based off the lvl 1 (and his party if in a group)

[Hoihe]

Here's another argument against mobs scaling up always with PC strength:

Oblivion/Skyrimitis.

There's a reason mods that remove level scaling are amongst the most popular after the NSFW ones. People like to have a feeling of progression.

Gothic games? At the start you can barely kill a wolf pup, much less take on dragons. Defeating an orc is an chievement. Lategame? Other than bosses, you don't really find challenge unless you act stupid. It's intended - you went through hell, and now you dish hell back to your foes.

Oblivion/Skyrim kill that feeling of accomplishment. You literally wear the best gear you can put your hands on, a walking demi-god in skills and power and random no name bandit is just as powerful and well armed as you are.

While the scaling cap of +4 levels helps there, it still kills the purpose of becoming more powerful.

Scaled foes should be a rare and special occurrence with special names - they should be the exceptional foes amongst the rabble - the lieutenants, their heroes.

That's how I did my own events when DMing. Most spawns I made were "easy" or "weak" compared to the PCs. They died easy, were just threatening enough to look worrying en masse. There was one or two mobs every "wave"/"encounter" who were considered lieutenant level who actually could threaten to severely wound a PC.

If the whole event was filled with those, they wouldn't have felt anything special. The players wouldn't have either - after all, what's the point of all their work and investment if mundane enemies threaten their lives?

By being equal footing as a single PC surrounded by weak enemies, however, there was a comparison. These guys were rare, and kind of felt "special", so that when they challenged the PCs, they didn't feel like "How the hell does civilization still survive when random bandits are this powerful?"

This also makes making an actual boss easier. Since there's a clear contrast between "Common" "Special" and "boss", one needn't make the boss encounter impossible to win with anything but powerbuilds for it to make a lasting impression.


100% scaling kind of kills GW2 for me. >Be the one who killed Zhaitan > Be at risk from common nobody enemies in starting area.




Tl:DR

To quote a common "anti snowflake" phrase:

"Where everyone is special, no one is."

Same thing applies to encounter difficulty and immersion. Where every foe is dangerous - there's no such thing as a special enemy worthy of remembrance.

[Aspect of Sorrow]

It's implied. The statics are too predictable. Range caps can be applied, just as easily as assigning titles to the encounter names if it's that immersion breaking to you. Your character should have access to all languages in order to understand the ranks then.

[KOPOJIbPAKOB]

Here's another argument against mobs scaling up always with PC strength:

Oblivion/Skyrimitis.

If you enter BG graveyard as an epic lvl toon, the skeletons and zombies won't turn into Liches and Elite vampires, they will just acquire a few levels. That's the difference.

[PaulImposteur]

Went from level 1 to 6 today, having tons of fun on a new character. Encountered tons of bosses, high CR creatures appearing at times with huge challenges attached. Over-all I think it was one of the most fun nights I had just killing mobs. Usually it's extremely boring and predictable. Was able to stay in Graveyard much longer, and meet other low level toons instead of leaving immediately at level 3.

Should mention did 0 muling. So overall, it's totally possible for a new player, especially since I'm terrible at builds.

Ended the night with enough gold to buy the regen cape, got adamantine half-plate, and +2 Armor bracers, +1 Dodge boots, and a +2 light shield. So I did have some decent luck on drops.

[Calodan]

This is the greatest thing since sliced bread in my opinion. This kind of game tweak is what makes me like playing even more.

The amount of love I have for dynamic systems can not be quantified in words of universal mathematics.

[Larzs]

I think a Dynamic creature murdered me in the Troll Claw Hills...some True Seeing/Always spotting Ogre Skeleton I just couldn't hide from him...

[AC81]

This is the greatest thing since sliced bread in my opinion. This kind of game tweak is what makes me like playing even more.

The amount of love I have for dynamic systems can not be quantified in words of universal mathematics.

+1. This is the best change we've had in a long time.

[Wolfrayne]

Ok there is something here that keeps coming up that is really bugging me. Stop thinking like a solo Powerbuild character. D&D has always been based on the fact that you work with other people. If something is more challenging RUN AWAY and get help or move somewhere else.

The fact that my characters can run through any area in my level range without any problem really bugs me especially in the higher levels. i MISS the challenge of being a low level and having to fight for my life instead of simply blowing up everything in the area like some kind of god.

there is nothing more boring that running the same damn circle over and over and over and over. and for what? yay! level 30! on to the next character cause nothing is fun anymore... Being an epic level character is BORING. it really is. when there is nothing left BUT the RP then the game really dies for me. There isnt always someone to RP with. There isn't always a DM event (ESPECIALLY in my timezone) Its nice to have a little variety of things to do.

As for the death penalty. This comes up all the time. There is nothing wrong with it, if you are dying over and over from the same thing. Go to another area. Its not that big of a deal.

Stop thinking in numbers all the time. You cant always win. Learn to accept change. If you dont like it dont bitch about it, give suggestions to make it better, if they say "no we are going to leave as is" Tough it out. Think around the problem.


i say

HOORAY FOR MORE RANDOM DYNAMIC GAMEPLAY! MOAR PLEASE!!!!!

[Face]

I like it aswel and hope it wil be enhanced even further.

[KhaosKid]

As I stated earlier, I was frustrated at the time that I couldn't walk over an area to get that last chest despite being able to do so the day before. I just fought an endless horde of undead on a bridge over looking a fog enshrouded chasm. It was actually pretty epic. I could have fought on forever, but seeing that I would not win, I fled. So, +1 to the dynamic spawns.

[NegInfinity]

Yes keep it "fairly" unknown so that we can have fun with the new excitement

I second that. If I'm about to run into five dracoliches in CR1 area, I do not want to be warned about it. It is more interesting this way.

(No sarcasm. I'm serious).

As I stated earlier, I was frustrated at the time that I couldn't walk over an area to get that last chest despite being able to do so the day before. I just fought an endless horde of undead on a bridge over looking a fog enshrouded chasm. It was actually pretty epic. I could have fought on forever, but seeing that I would not win, I fled. So, +1 to the dynamic spawns.

I also really want to find an area like that and set everything in it on fire. It'll be glorious.

[aaron22]

Tried to make something happen in troll claws last night witn toons thst are lower than the cr. but I think the random run throughs by epics may have messed it up. Never saw a change and me and my nephew can murder trolls at level 16