Coming Soon: Discussion Thread (2017)

[chad878262]

if you packhorse die then what wil lyou lose all you items on the ground and then any one can pick the item from you

No. This was answered earlier in the thread. If the packhorse dies you just have to pay a fee for the horse merchant to have a stablehand go collect your stuff. Best not to think about how the stablehand is able to collect the items from the packhorse that some silly adventurer took to Avernus...

[Steve]

Sorry, but griefing is a thing, like it or not. It's easy to say as a long time player that I wouldn't mind a more rough and tumble world, but If had been PK'd in my first couple weeks/months on the server I likely would have just found something else to do...

Don't be sorry! lol. There is always the option that if your scenario happened on a Server without the current Rules, a screenshot of Epic Toons griefing a newbie, sent to the DM team, and resulting in bans on those Players, would be a fair, yes?

Griefing can STILL HAPPEN NOW, without any Rule changes.

My point is, or was, that Pack Mules or Horses or whatever they are, are more an OOC function of convenience for Players, than a new RP tool. And this OOC function is great, really—a larger inventory for carrying back lots of loot, is super nice.

But as it stands, NO ONE is really interested in losing their gear, because of the umpteen reasons and anecdotes stated for umpteen years in umpteen Threads. And for good reason no Player wants to have their preciouses taken away—what a PITA!!!

[Lockonnow]

well the packhorse count has a NPC so we will have lots of npc laggy the server

[chad878262]

While you make good points, packhorses can still be used for RP purposes...that's up to the player(s). No matter what get's introduced you can always look at a way to consider a mechanic OOC. However, I would argue that it can and should be treated IC in so far as the rules allow. Case in point, probably not a good idea to tether your mule outside of Cloakwood mine... However, leaving it stabled at FAI and then later taking it with you to Beregost before adventuring in the surrounding area's in that location could be considered IC.

Sorry, but griefing is a thing, like it or not. It's easy to say as a long time player that I wouldn't mind a more rough and tumble world, but If had been PK'd in my first couple weeks/months on the server I likely would have just found something else to do...

Don't be sorry! lol. There is always the option that if your scenario happened on a Server without the current Rules, a screenshot of Epic Toons griefing a newbie, sent to the DM team, and resulting in bans on those Players, would be a fair, yes?

Griefing can STILL HAPPEN NOW, without any Rule changes.

My point is, or was, that Pack Mules or Horses or whatever they are, are more an OOC function of convenience for Players, than a new RP tool. And this OOC function is great, really—a larger inventory for carrying back lots of loot, is super nice.

But as it stands, NO ONE is really interested in losing their gear, because of the umpteen reasons and anecdotes stated for umpteen years in umpteen Threads. And for good reason no Player wants to have their preciouses taken away—what a PITA!!!

[Steve]

With your suggestions, Chad, yes, the Pack Mule can be seen as IC, and should. But it will have yuuuuge limitations to reality-like instances of RP, unless Players consent OOC.

Essentially, it isn't the Pack Mules that are the issue, really...it is how they fit in the NPC/PvP/OOC consent Rules Universe that is currently directing RP on BGTSCC.

[dedude]

How is the horse any more OOC than your own character? We can’t kill you and steal your stuff either. It’s a game steve, mechanics will take you only so far, rest need to be RP’ed.

[Steve]

It is a game!! Holy crap...all this time....

Is the horse seen as an extension of your PC? Is it seen like a Familiar, or a summons? Summons can be attacked KOS, yes?

If I look at my screen, and see my PC and a Pack Mule, then by sense-Rights I see Two Distinct Beings.

Another PC can attempt to kill and steal my PC's stuff, but by the PvP Consent Rules, I can easily shrug that off if I'm not "into it."

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not into the idea of enforcing PvP or killing onto other Players, nor would I enjoy having that forced upon me.

But this is the thing: RP dies without consent. And, there is PLENTY of reasons whey Players shouldn't give consent to other Players regarding certain "desires" because you'll literally lose A LOT, not only prized possessions but IC face...and its far too easy to lose BIG TIME because of those mechanical differences of yuuuuge scale that are present at the same time, ie, Level 1 newbs and epic level oldtimer knowthemechanicslikethebackofyourhand game gods.

Look, I like the pack mules, okay! I'm just saying that dealing with robberies and losing your preciouses is a very touchy subject. And if Pack Mules are defined as Summons, for example...whoa nelly, that's gonna cause a whole bunch of unhappiness.

Don't Gray Orcs like eating donkey meat!?!?!?

[Marathados]

Well, a little bit more difficulty never hurts

[Thunderbolt']

I don’t care about loot. I wanna ride my packmule into the sunset.

[RaiderOne]

I understand that playing a game such as this is never perfect as there is never a DM to witness and control every situation. That being said the rules here are very much in favour of the individual, and the only penalty the game ever enforces is 100xp per level on death. Not that this is a discussion about the death XP penalty – which I think is fine.

You can mule items both IC and OOC – which to me seems like playing legal loop holes but having been on other servers it’s a nightmare to enforce a no mules policy.

Now because this exists it begs the question why does the server need pack mules? Because mechanically it’s just saying I want to mule items IC. In a RL game you never need a mule to carry all your magical swords/armour, it’s for provisions and travel.

So for me, if features such as this are implemented I would like them to not be hidden behind special protection rules. If your character is stupid enough to go walking in the hills all alone with a donkey then is going to get eaten by orcs, and they will steal your stuff, in the same way you steal theirs. So I would prefer open pvp and stealing from pack mules/ loss of some items on its death etc. if you choose to play the game you have to accept the consequences.

[Valefort]

That's my opinion as well, however in this version it is something you can choose to accept for RP's sake which is not too bad.

[Steve]

That's my opinion as well, however in this version it is something you can choose to accept for RP's sake which is not too bad.

Would it be possible to 'Select' whether a Mule is eatable, steal-able or slay-able? Kinda like how we can adjust/select the outcome of PvP?

That way, a Player could actually Toggle Select and Invite another to try and steal his Epic Mule of Loots....!

*plans lure adequately....*

[Calodan]

That's my opinion as well, however in this version it is something you can choose to accept for RP's sake which is not too bad.

Would it be possible to 'Select' whether a Mule is eatable, steal-able or slay-able? Kinda like how we can adjust/select the outcome of PvP?

That way, a Player could actually Toggle Select and Invite another to try and steal his Epic Mule of Loots....!

*plans lure adequately....*

I agree why not let the player choose? The applications for this are huge. Yes evil players will lure people out to ambush them most likely and so will Harpers to evil thugs.....That is the point of such mechanisms. To provide a modality of RP for those who wish to do that.

[RaiderOne]

As a followup thought, the 'item bank' system could be the 100% protection system but costs gold to store items. The donkey becomes the cheaper but riskier (and more fun for RP etc) option but only costs you when it dies/gets robbed?

[RaiderOne]

I agree why not let the player choose? The applications for this are huge. Yes evil players will lure people out to ambush them most likely and so will Harpers to evil thugs.....That is the point of such mechanisms. To provide a modality of RP for those who wish to do that.

I think the choice should be using the donkey or not. if you want to be safe you choose the item bank or use a character mule, if you want the opportunities to RP the threats you choose the donkey.