How to be a paladin... or not

[Miyuki]

Hi hi,

In the time I've been playing here, I've also met paladins of most different types. Some of them were straight and shiny good. Some were even considered as evil for their acts and earlier decisions.

That made me reflect also my own RP with one of my toons. Also I'm in this way looking for tips and advice how to do it right...or wrong. I read most of all, you loose your paladinhood, if:

a) You perform acts of evil.
b) You stop beeing lawful.
c) You do both.

The consequence is normally that you fall from grace as a paladin, but you're not necessarily abandoned by your deity.
Which means, you have to pick a different class or be an oath breaker. In both cases you loose all your spells and paladin abilities. But you still can worship the same deity if you want.

So my question is. How did you play your paladins, no matter if fallen or not?

[Kiran]

Always an interesting topic!

I play a paladin called Althalos Fenwick. He is a grumpy old slightly racist templar who is sort of past his prime.

He ain't a nice guy as such, but in my opinion, paladins are not meant to be nice, trust everyone and smile and radiate joy. Their job is to be a bastion of light against evil. It aint a thankful job, most of your friends/colleagues die before they even make it to their thirties due to the nature of the "job"

But to answer your question at the end, it is a difficult one. I would think it comes down to how your character fell, his background and his general roleplay to reflect this. Some Paladins might fall because they were tricked, though its doubtful, and would strive to win back the favour of their diety by still fighting the evil in the lands.

Others? They may decide to really really fall and become that which they fought for so many years.

But you also got to consider all the different type of gods/dieties which paladins follow. It is never a easy topic, but there are some awesome paladins out there who roleplayed them for ages who are worth chatting to. Only problem is, it is a topic which is hotly debated, many people disagree on the core of what a paladin is, or should behave.

Either way, good luck with it!

[flipside43]

A paladin has two sets of code basically: the general paladin code (which you can find elsewhere) and their personal code developed from their deities dogma. So a paladin can fall by not upholding either code. The second code is likely to be a bigger hurdle to jump over and would likely catch a paladin more often then the basic paladin code.

[Miyuki]

I have no problems with following her deity actually. I rather have the hurdle with beeing a paladin in general. I'm not likely or normal. Hehe.

Speaking of the lawfulness itself. A paladin is actually always lawful. But would it be possible, for example he enters a pact? Doesn't have to be with something evil, but a warlock always has to be evil or chaotic. Would he fall from grace and turn for example chaotic good?

[flipside43]

Being lawful I would think would lend to someone being very considerate of potential pacts and their ability to uphold them and then to follow through with upholding them. Oaths and pacts are fairly common for holy types so I would say it's fairly common. If a paladin was making a lot of pacts and then not upholding them, I would view that as chaotic.

[Miyuki]

Yes, I thought in a similar way. The paladin is lawful. The warlock has to be evil or chaotic. So a paladin can make a pact, fall but become a non-evil warlock then?

[flipside43]

Are you referring to pacts as like... a deal with a demon or devil? Then yes, if they did that, they would fall for a myriad of reasons. I thought you were using pact in a generic sense.

[Miyuki]

I was to acts with supernatural beings and others, yes. There's also pacts with fey for example as I learned it. At least I've seen it played on other servers and here, too.
Fey don't have to be evil, but many of them are chaotic. But it would have the same effect?

[flipside43]

Well to make a deal with an otherworldly being for essentially unlimited power is either extremely chaotic or extremely evil. That's why those restrictions are in place. Plus for a paladin it could be viewed as a lack of faith in their own deity to support their sword through the darkness, ect ect.

Fey in this context can be evil and a lot of them likely are. Even if they are not they would be notorious tricksters and given their essentially long to unlimited lifespan, their view on matters would be entirely skewed when it comes to chaos and priorities. The odds of them aligning with a deities dogma and priorities are likely very close to 0. Unseelie fey for example are entirely evil and breed with everyone and everything to make abhorrent hybrids with is anathema to fey purity most likely stemming from the gift of long life from the creator races.

A priest or perhaps more so a favoured soul would have an easier time perhaps as paladins are pillars of faith AND action. There is a reason most don't live past 30, as that faith is acted out in extreme situations often.

[Miyuki]

I know the unseelie are mostly evil. But there are also such as dryads and nypmhs which are normally good even. What of those?

[flipside43]

I still think it falls down to the nature of making a pact vs paladin faith. I don't see this ever meshing myself. You can always write to the DMs though.

[Miyuki]

Ok, that already helps to see, what is right or wrong. The do's and don'ts, thanks.

[izzul]

Can a paladin Ascend to Angelhood?

since people like to mock their zealousness. (which is not an ethical practice)

Paladins should be treated fairly, some really are purely lawful good aiming for godliness.

[Glowfire]

Can a paladin Ascend to Angelhood?

Only after dying, the deity decides

It's a nice character retirement.

[DeepFriedMoose]

In my opinion, a Paladin is already "Pacted" to their god -- it's how they get their abilities*, and so taking a "Pact" from another being would violate the first, and lead to a fall from grace.

* Pacted to Their God: "I vow to serve <god>, and follow their tenants, and no others, unto death." Pretty much the definition of a vow.