Death Attack Vs. Mind-Influencing Protection

[Larzs]

This has been discussed before and I know there was a few(or maybe just one) options to resolve this but still nothing in-game. This been re-approached lately?

Still makes no sense that it is blocked by Mind Protection...same way back in NwN1 Implosion was blocked by Death Ward. :/

[Valefort]

Implosion is blocked by death ward in nwn2 as well ! As for death attack in my opinion this change is pretty unlikely, even if it is indeed not normal. That's a PvP change for one of the already strongest classes in PvP, I wouldn't count on it.

[Larzs]

Implosion is blocked by death ward in nwn2 as well !

Ugh....lazy ass Obsidian devs...Death Ward should not work to block the crushing forces of an Implosion! Sadness...

As for death attack in my opinion this change is pretty unlikely, even if it is indeed not normal. That's a PvP change for one of the already strongest classes in PvP, I wouldn't count on it.

Not even fair lol, I still remain weak. A level 1 spell can make me worthless in PvP...as my all Int Asn pretty much uses that as her go to. I don't know what they were thinking.

They really should let the source code out to fix it so nothing short of a Fort Save(or Crit Immunity) blocks a Death Attack Paralyze...

I am guessing Monk Stunning Blow is blocked just the same as well as their Quivering Palm(against Death Ward)?

[Valefort]

You misunderstand, it's not impossible to fix but it's unlikely to happen.

[Steve]

Would, if scripted, the spell Undetectible Alignment counter the protections of Protection from Alignment?

Also, is Protection from Alignment on the Spell Breach List for BGTSCC, or just for Dispels?

[Valefort]

Sure, would be possible.

For breach https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title ... h,_Greater

[Steve]

Alright, thanks for the link. That would be a no, then. And, I alphabetized it.

It would be interesting to know if Alignment "disguising" in general has interest and support among Players and Staff.

[Deathgrowl]

Would, if scripted, the spell Undetectible Alignment counter the protections of Protection from Alignment?

If scripted, yes. Would. But should it? Remember some spells are inherently an alignment, so even if the caster's alignment is hidden, that spell will still be affected by Protection from Alignment.

And the description of Undetectable Alignment only refers to the alignment being, indeed, undetectable specifically by divinations. So I doubt it would counter Protection from Alignment.

[Steve]

I agree with you, DG. I only brought it up as a possible alternative, since Death Attack should not be disabled/inhibited by Protection from Evil/Good.

Because:

Death Attack: If an assassin studies his victim for 3 rounds and then makes a sneak attack with a melee weapon that successfully deals damage, the sneak attack has the additional effect of possibly either paralyzing or killing the target (assassin's choice). While studying the victim, the assassin can undertake other actions so long as his attention stays focused on the target and the target does not detect the assassin or recognize the assassin as an enemy. If the victim of such an attack fails a Fortitude save (DC 10 + the assassin's class level + the assassin's Int modifier) against the kill effect, she dies. If the saving throw fails against the paralysis effect, the victim's mind and body become enervated, rendering her helpless and unable to act for 1d6 rounds plus 1 round per level of the assassin. If the victim's saving throw succeeds, the attack is just a normal sneak attack. Once the assassin has completed the 3 rounds of study, he must make the death attack within the next 3 rounds. If a death attack is attempted and fails (the victim makes her save) or if the assassin does not launch the attack within 3 rounds of completing the study, 3 new rounds of study are required before he can attempt another death attack.

Death Attack is either a kill or paralyze effect.

Protection from Evil/Good does the following:

...the barrier blocks any attempt to possess the warded creature (by a magic jar attack, for example) or to exercise mental control over the creature (including enchantment (charm) effects and enchantment (compulsion) effects that grant the caster ongoing control over the subject, such as dominate person). The protection does not prevent such effects from targeting the protected creature, but it suppresses the effect for the duration of the protection from evil effect. If the protection from evil effect ends before the effect granting mental control does, the would-be controller would then be able to mentally command the controlled creature. Likewise, the barrier keeps out a possessing life force but does not expel one if it is in place before the spell is cast. This second effect works regardless of alignment.

PoE/G blocks possession or charm/compulsion effects.

Very different stuff!! So how bouts fixin' dat?

[Larzs]

Would, if scripted, the spell Undetectible Alignment counter the protections of Protection from Alignment?

Also, is Protection from Alignment on the Spell Breach List for BGTSCC, or just for Dispels?

I am not so sure that Undetectable Alignment works like that. Sure it just blocks Detect Good/Evil/Alignment. But I would be completely on board with that spell. All the more ways to hide myself.

Death Attack is either a kill or paralyze effect.

Very different stuff!! So how bouts fixin' dat?

I would be okay with it just being Paralyze, mainly cause you can have more fun with that. Lol

But yeah, makes no sense to me. I mean, I know why they did it from a scripting point. It is just easier and gets the job done. Always saw Death Attack like stabbing someone in the spine, just like Implosion was causing magical forces to physically crush someone in an atom, instead of attacking their lifeforce in the same way Finger of Death or Wail of Banshee might.

[Kaden Asen]

Malcolm Reynolds is unimpressed with your puny death attacks.

Sorry .. I've been watching this thread for a bit and I just couldn't resist.. . .Forgive me!

[Calodan]

I think being able to protect against it is great. Like putting metal plating in those spots to prevent being paralyzed....What I do not think is good is how DA will not trigger unless the enemy is not engaged. So when in groups it is virtually impossible to make use of DA. In fact in its current form it encourages a assassin to solo and this is a group server. Could it be made so that DA will always trigger from HIPS even if the enemy is engaged? Or perhaps make a feat that we can choose that allows this to happen? I mean stabbing someone in the spine whether they are alone and unassuming or engaged is still being stabbed in the spine...not sure how fighting with some one else eliminates that possibility at all.

If the only possibility for DA to be made this way means on every hit then perhaps it can be made to only hit on 25% of your attacks instead and always trigger on sneak attacks? I can see where having to save on EVERY SA would be overkill.

[Larzs]

Malcolm Reynolds is unimpressed with your puny death attacks.

Don't tempt me...I have a Death Attack like no other! Muhahaha

I think being able to protect against it is great. Like putting metal plating in those spots to prevent being paralyzed.

Not really how it works...the whole idea of Sneak Attack/Death Attack is the fact you are finding a hole, gap, an opening in their armor and defenses to take advantage of. Nothing short of hardy endurance and fortitude lets you resist the secondary paralysis/death of that attack.

What I do not think is good is how DA will not trigger unless the enemy is not engaged.

So you gotta wait a little bit before you try again, Death Attack is all built around an unsuspecting target. Keep it as is.

So when in groups it is virtually impossible to make use of DA. In fact in its current form it encourages a assassin to solo and this is a group server.

I could disagree with this massively. While sure in groups it is near impossible to get the Paralysis, you still get the Sneak Attack damage from flanking which is worth it all in its own and plus you likely aren't the focus of the monster's hate and thus got a better chance of survival. Not to mention best to keep that whole...I'm an Assassin hidden from most player characters in the world haha.

Could it be made so that DA will always trigger from HIPS even if the enemy is engaged? Or perhaps make a feat that we can choose that allows this to happen?

Doubt it, I bet that is hard coded in the game. Since that is all about how Death Attack works in PnP. Well, close anyways. Plus it makes the best sense to me to have it work on only that initial flurry, I am sure I have had a couple rolls vs DC from Hidden, but I always use two weapons so that might have some part of it.

[electric mayhem]

I kind of agree that using a protection from 'alignment' spell prevents one from being stabbed in a deathly manner, is rather... silly.

And also with the second suggestion that Death attacks should have a chance whether in a group/solo engaged/ornot.