Are silent-still spells completely obscured from detection?

[Hoihe]

As far I know, silent-still spells still show up in the combat log despite their being no visual, nor auditory indication they are being cast. Is it considered meta-gaming if someone reacts, while I'm casting silent teleport, to get away from a situation, if I provided no previous signs of wanting to tp away?

[Hoihe]

bump

[DM Ditto]

While I’m not entirely sure if this is respected in NWN2, in tabletop a stilled and silent spell only increases the Spellcraft DC by +4 (Tome and Blood, p.19). More difficult to detect, but not undetectable.

(This is going by tabletop metrics where the numbers aren’t nearly as high. Using BG metrics it would be comparable to a +20 modifier or so.)

I am aware that Song and Silence seems to contradict this by saying “[l]ike a silent, stilled spell, a disguised spell can't be identified through a spellcraft check“ (p.38), but in a player’s query towards Wizards of the Coast regarding the issue, they have gone on record saying it was a “bad example from the author”:

This was simply a bad example by the author. In Song and Silence, this should simply read "a disguised spell can't be identified through a spellcraft check."

Hope that helps,

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Interpret that as you will. However, in a DM event the detectability of stilled and silent spells would be up for DM discretion. It would be best to clarify matters like these with the DM(s) running the event beforehand.

[Hoihe]

The question is less of the SPELL being identified, but rather the act of casting.

[DM Ditto]

That’s also Spellcraft’s purpose - identify that a spell is being cast. Even silent and stilled, a mage would have to make some sort of cue due to the effort involved in bringing their magic to bear, cues that someone can potentially detect and interpret one way or another. Tome And Blood indicates in the same page I referenced above that you “can use Spellcraft to identify a spell even if the spell has no verbal, somatic, or material component - there's no mistaking the concentration magic requires. However, you still must be able to see or hear the spellcaster” (p.19).

So for someone to have no chance detecting that you are casting a spell whatsoever (and be in a position to counter it), they would have to be unable to both hear and see you in any way. This is assuming that a spell is being cast - if you’re casting something else like a rod, judgment, or a role in a play (among other applications of the verb), the other party may need a different skill to detect that.

It also depends on whether the players on the other end are skilled enough to detect a spell is being cast. To assume that all players are unable to detect a spell being cast when it's stilled and silent would be as much metagaming those players as it would be metagaming for a player without any Spellcraft to identify that you are casting a spell due to NWN2's lack of ability to conceal that part of the combat log (instead of thinking really hard or something similar a stilled and silent spell would do). For this part it would benefit both parties to civilly discuss any issues that come up and come to a mutual compromise and reserve DM mediation as an absolute last resort.

Again, in a DM event whether being silent and stilled would prevent someone from recognizing a spell being cast or not would depend on the DM running the event in question.

[Storm Munin]

So within globes of darkness and silence the silent and still caster would make its casting while impossible to detect by a bystander?

[DM Ditto]

Correct, though the presence of a silent globe of darkness would make people think something is up anyway!

[NeOmega]

off topic, but i wish silent still spells didnt break stealth. i know it is mechanically impossible, but still...