PRC Suggestion: Shadowbane Stalker

[YourMoveHolyMan]

Creating a new thread with a more goal oriented title, suggesting that this class be added to BG in lieu of the Divine Seeker. For the original discussion on Divine Seeker, see here: viewtopic.php?f=443&t=62561

I wish we had this class instead: Shadowbane Stalker

http://nwn2db.com/library/classes/?133

Level 10 PRC, very similar, but actually has attractive qualities. Although I would change the search skill bonus to a sense motive bonus.

Kaedrin Class

Shadowbane Stalker

(PRESTIGE CLASS: This class is not available at character creation and must be unlocked by meeting special requirements, listed below. This class has 10 levels.)

Those they name as heretics or servants of evil call them zealots. Those they protect from darkness call them saviors and defenders of the truth. Whatever their label, shadowbane stalkers rank as some of the most feared individuals wherever they go.

Requirements:

Alignment: Any good.

Divine Casting: Able to cast 2nd level divine spells.

Skills: Lore 8, Search 4, Diplomacy 4.

Special: 1d6 of Sneak Attack (or the equivalent ability).

Class Features:

- Hit Die: d8

- Base Attack Bonus: Medium.

- High Saves: Ref, Will.

- Weapon Proficiencies: None.

- Armor Proficiencies: None.

- Skill Points: 6 + Int modifier.

- Class Skills: Appraise, Concentration, Craft Armor, Craft Weapon, Craft Trap, Diplomacy, Disable Device, Heal, Hide, Intimidate, Listen, Lore, Move Silently, Open Lock, Search, Set Trap, Sleight of Hand, Spellcraft, Spot, Tumble, and Use Magic Device.

Class Abilities:

Level 1: Divine spellcasting progression, Sacred Stealth, Turn Undead

Level 2: Discover Subterfuge +2

Level 3: Sneak Attack +1d6

Level 4: Bonus Feat: Divine Shield

Level 5: Discover Subterfuge +4

Level 6: Sneak Attack +2d6

Level 7: Sacred Stealth +8

Level 8: Discover Subterfuge +6

Level 9: Sneak Attack +3d6

Level 10: Bonus Feat: Sacred Vengeance

- Bonus Feats: At 4th level the shadowbane stalker is granted Divine Shield. At 10th level the shadowbane stalker is granted Sacred Vengeance.

- Spellcasting: A shadowbane stalker continues training in divine spellcasting as well as learning. At each level gained in the shadowbane stalker class except for 4th and 9th, she gains new spells per day (and spells known) as if she had gained a level in a divine spellcasting class she belonged to before adding the prestige class level. If she had more than one divine spellcasting class before becoming a shadowbane stalker, she must decide which class to progress in.

- Turn Undead: At 1st level the shadowbane stalker is granted Turn Undead. Shadowbane stalker levels count as cleric levels for the purpose of turning undead.

- Sacred Stealth: A shadowbane stalker can channel some of her divine power to become stealthier. She expends one use of Turn Undead and gains a +4 sacred bonus to Hide and Move Silently checks for a number of minutes equal to her Charisma bonus. At 7th level, the bonus increases to +8.

- Discover Subterfuge: A shadowbane stalker trains diligently to detect subterfuge and the misdirection of others. At 2nd level and higher, she gains a +2 competence bonus on Search checks. This bonus increases to +4 at 5th level and +6 at 8th level.

[MasterSilke]

I second this notion. So far the only decent PrC possessing strong synergy between cleric and rogue (ie divine spell progression and SA) is Darkfire Disciple which is of course limited to non-good alignments. I think it'd be nice to have a similar option out there for good/non-evil alignments and help add a little variety in options for cleric/rogue builds. After all, Divine Seeker is pretty much garbage as mentioned in the other thread.

[YourMoveHolyMan]

one edit I would suggest, if this class is implemented, is to change the pre-req skill from search, to sense motive, and to change the class feat bonus to sense motive to match.

[mrm3ntalist]

The issue i am seeing with this PRC is about giving TU. This would be a much better 3-4 level dip for FS EDM builds. Instead of FS and Cleric or paladin or Blackguard, you can get 4 levels of shadowbane stalker, open tumble and detection skills and a free divine shield. All that without losing any CL but 1 at level 4.

The only way for this to be considered, is instead of giving TU, it will allow for TU progression.

[NeOmega]

The issue i am seeing with this PRC is about giving TU. This would be a much better 3-4 level dip for FS EDM builds. Instead of FS and Cleric or paladin or Blackguard, you can get 4 levels of shadowbane stalker, open tumble and detection skills and a free divine shield. All that without losing any CL but 1 at level 4.

The only way for this to be considered, is instead of giving TU, it will allow for TU progression.

why even give them TU or TU progression? this seems more like an anti-illusion, anti-shadow class.

i also think the 8/10 spellcasting progression is OP. more like 5/10, on every even level, so 3 level dips only get 1 caster level progression.

also umd fits this lore how?

6+ int skill points? why? that's high for a class with casting progression. More like 4.

also, appraising and disabling devices? naw.

honestly, this class seems like a lazily thought out rogue/cleric mix, with poorly thought out lore slapped on top of it.

[YourMoveHolyMan]

In retrospect, the server I'd seen this prc on had disabled flavoured souls entirely, so thats a valid point.

[YourMoveHolyMan]

Its originally from a sourcebook, actually, with those class skills in mind, with more from pnp. Not that the lore couldn't be better fleshed out for every PrC out there (anointed knights, warrior of darkness?), not sure why that should be a qualifier or dis qualifier for this class.

[YourMoveHolyMan]

The issue i am seeing with this PRC is about giving TU. This would be a much better 3-4 level dip for FS EDM builds. Instead of FS and Cleric or paladin or Blackguard, you can get 4 levels of shadowbane stalker, open tumble and detection skills and a free divine shield. All that without losing any CL but 1 at level 4.

The only way for this to be considered, is instead of giving TU, it will allow for TU progression.

You'd have to take 3 levels of a class that grants SD, too. So for the 'free divine shield' you'd lose 4 CL, making you burn another feat to go back up to 30 CL.

You'd lose even more CL if you dipped into shadowdancer to gain hips from the stealth skills.

[mrm3ntalist]

The issue i am seeing with this PRC is about giving TU. This would be a much better 3-4 level dip for FS EDM builds. Instead of FS and Cleric or paladin or Blackguard, you can get 4 levels of shadowbane stalker, open tumble and detection skills and a free divine shield. All that without losing any CL but 1 at level 4.

The only way for this to be considered, is instead of giving TU, it will allow for TU progression.

You'd have to take 3 levels of a class that grants SD, too. So for the 'free divine shield' you'd lose 4 CL, making you burn another feat to go back up to 30 CL.

You'd lose even more CL if you dipped into shadowdancer to gain hips from the stealth skills.

By SD you mean SA, right?

If the class is taken as a 4 level dip just for the TU and Divine shield, there is no need for the stealth skills.

The common cookie cutter FS build is FS24(23 for paladins)/rogue3/cleric3 or BG3 or paladin4. With the dispel fix, those builds got a small weakness in the form of 28 CL. That drops to 27CL if you want divine shield. Paladins lose one more CL.

This PRC, if implemented as is will negate that weakness, since it will end up with 30CL. On top of that, like i mentioned before you will get a free feat in addition to tumble and spot.

PRCs that give TU were not implemented in the past for the same reasons. Its either removing the TU and just giving progression, which will make the class feats useless for any divine build such as ranger, druid etc - unless we implement those feats ( like sacred stealth ) in a different way, or doing something silly like banning FS from getting the PRC and maybe SSs.

[YourMoveHolyMan]

Sneak Dice, Sneak Attacks, yeah I meant that.

I'm not saying your math is wrong, but I don't see where the FS multi-classes that dip into 3 rogue come out with a 28 Caster level. Assuming they're not taking practiced spellcaster, or? It still appears they can hit 30 caster level with practiced spellcaster. And obtain divine shield, tumble, UMD, with or without the implementation of this prc.

[mrm3ntalist]

Sneak Dice, Sneak Attacks, yeah I meant that.

I'm not saying your math is wrong, but I don't see where the FS multi-classes that dip into 3 rogue come out with a 28 Caster level. Assuming they're not taking practiced spellcaster, or? It still appears they can hit 30 caster level with practiced spellcaster. And obtain divine shield, tumble, UMD, with or without the implementation of this prc.

FS24/Rogue3/Cleric3 has 6 classes with no spell progression. Thats CL 28 with PSC. In case you want divine shield as well, then you need cleric4 which is another non spell progression level.

[chad878262]

Sneak Dice, Sneak Attacks, yeah I meant that.

I'm not saying your math is wrong, but I don't see where the FS multi-classes that dip into 3 rogue come out with a 28 Caster level. Assuming they're not taking practiced spellcaster, or? It still appears they can hit 30 caster level with practiced spellcaster. And obtain divine shield, tumble, UMD, with or without the implementation of this prc.

28 CL is fs/r/c with edm and divine shield. 27 cl is replacing cleric with black guard. 26cl if you go paladin. This is to have edm and expose weakness/ evasion with full tumble, and umd for teleport and stuff.

[YourMoveHolyMan]

Yeah, I see the math now, I don't know why but I was considering clerics and FS's to have the same caster progression even though they're not.

[mrm3ntalist]

Yeah, I see the math now, I don't know why but I was considering clerics and FS's to have the same caster progression even though they're not.

I like the PRC myself. Unless something is done with the TU and/or the sacred feats, it will be very difficult to be implemented.

I will post it on the QC forums for discussion, once some more important matters are discussed.

[YourMoveHolyMan]

Sacred Vengeance is mostly meh, takes a round(Or was it a free action?) to add 2d6 vs undead for a round.

That said if the turn progression is off the table, those two feats should probably be supplemented with something else, or removed entirely, as without turn progression it doesn't make sense to possess the dead feats.

I don't know what to recommend in their place off the top of my head, I'll brainstorm it some, maybe a list of feats to choose from.

And thanks for putting it over to QC.