What is the 0th meridian for longitude/Latitude in FR?

[Hoihe]

Both the concepts of Longitude and Latitude are ancient concepts IRL, dating way back to the greeks (particularly Hipparchus).

Numerous ways existed by 1300 CE to determine Longitude as compared to the equator, from as simple methods as measuring how many fists polaris was above the horizon through kamals/cross-staves to astrolobes. I assume in FR, they use the Equator for the 0th degree of latitude and employ the same devices, maybe some magic as well.

Question is however - where is Longitude measured from? Measuring it shouldn't be an issue by itself. In Ancient times Hipparchus proposed measuring it from Rhodes and measuring time through the lunar cycles to determine longitude. This was only so accurate, but it did help navigators. It was later replaced by using sandglasses to measure "Absolute time" and compared it to "relative time", and later by using clocks. I assume in FR; divination spells can aid greatly in determining absolute and local time, so measuring longitude should be easy as well. If not divination, Gondites probably have accurate time keeping devices.

So - where is Longitude measured from? Is there a consensus amongst voyagers, or is it a case of Each to their own? Would Candlekeep make sense, considering its prominience?

[Valefort]

Candlekeep is a small community overall, if such exists I'd say the standard on the Sword Coast is likely given by either Waterdeep or Baldur's Gate ; the prominent sea trade powers in the area.

[Planehopper]

There are no official references. The old atlas doesn't mention it, and Ed himself has weighed in on the CK forums over the years with various replies to coordinates, size/tilt of the globe, etc. and never gave an exact 0 meridian.

If I were to guess I would say that most kingdoms/civilizations/regions use their own capitol as 0, and agree with Valefort that Baldur's Gate or Waterdeep make the most sense on the Sword Coast (though perhaps that would still depend on where the maker of the map was from).

As interesting side notes, through some interesting math and extrapolation based on daylight hours, etc.. Ed agreed that Toril is larger than Earth, and tilted more severely on it's axis. While I always assumed the equator was near Chult, it is quite a bit further yet South, through Zahkara/Shou areas.

For referencing sea-faring RP, I would say you are safe calling it however you'd like, knowing that there is no real set standard.

[Hoihe]

There are no official references. The old atlas doesn't mention it, and Ed himself has weighed in on the CK forums over the years with various replies to coordinates, size/tilt of the globe, etc. and never gave an exact 0 meridian.

If I were to guess I would say that most kingdoms/civilizations/regions use their own capitol as 0, and agree with Valefort that Baldur's Gate or Waterdeep make the most sense on the Sword Coast (though perhaps that would still depend on where the maker of the map was from).

As interesting side notes, through some interesting math and extrapolation based on daylight hours, etc.. Ed agreed that Toril is larger than Earth, and tilted more severely on it's axis. While I always assumed the equator was near Chult, it is quite a bit further yet South, through Zahkara/Shou areas.

For referencing sea-faring RP, I would say you are safe calling it however you'd like, knowing that there is no real set standard.

Ｆｒｏｍ ｔｈｅ Ｇｈａｓｔｌｙ Ｅｙｒｉｅ Ｉ ｃａｎ ｓｅｅ ｔｏ ｔｈｅ ｅｎｄｓ ｏｆ ｔｈｅ ｗｏｒｌｄ， ａｎｄ ｆｒｏｍ ｔｈｉｓ ｖａｎｔａｇｅ ｐｏｉｎｔ Ｉ ｄｅｃｌａｒｅ ｗｉｔｈ ｕｔｔｅｒ ｃｅｒｔａｉｎｔｙ ｔｈａｔ CANDLEKEEP IS THE CENTER OF THE WORLD!

*At least, when my char is concerned .

[aaron22]

pretty sure since standardized time has not been established, 0 meridian is pointless. facet of a more modern (late 1800's) and more global society. magic opens a lot of doors to similar global movements, but only a selected few have the skill/knowledge to utilize.

so in short there is probably no prime meridian in forgotten realms because the world has not shrunk enough to need it.

[Hoihe]

pretty sure since standardized time has not been established, 0 meridian is pointless. facet of a more modern (late 1800's) and more global society. magic opens a lot of doors to similar global movements, but only a selected few have the skill/knowledge to utilize.

so in short there is probably no prime meridian in forgotten realms because the world has not shrunk enough to need it.

In my OP, I denoted that greeks (particularly Hipparchus) proposed using the Isle of Rhodes as the Prime Meridian. It shows that it is not a modern concept. The quest for more and more accurate means to measure longitude has been around since classical period, which was finally fulfilled by the invention of the Chronograph, which suffered only half a degree inaccuracy at sea after 2 months.

[aaron22]

true. and de vinci designed a helicopter, but no one cared because it is not something that people wanted/needed.

until standardized time a prime meridian had no reason to exist. so it was just an idea floating around that no one cared about. until they did. (see mid-late 1800's). its a mouse trap before mice.

[NeonAvenger]

true. and de vinci designed a helicopter, but no one cared because it is not something that people wanted/needed.

until standardized time a prime meridian had no reason to exist. so it was just an idea floating around that no one cared about. until they did. (see mid-late 1800's). its a mouse trap before mice.

Actually a great many people cared about having a prime meridian. There was just no real agreement until the 19th century about where it should be.
Wikipedia has a nice list of the "prime meridians" of the earth.

[SharpGn2]

pretty sure since standardized time has not been established, 0 meridian is pointless. facet of a more modern (late 1800's) and more global society. magic opens a lot of doors to similar global movements, but only a selected few have the skill/knowledge to utilize.

so in short there is probably no prime meridian in forgotten realms because the world has not shrunk enough to need it.

(Making an addendum to better state that while I'm using aaron22's post as a jumping point, this is to the thread as a whole - finding 0 degrees latitude - and a little bit as to why time needed to be standardized)

Standardized time came about with the advances in land-based movement - more on that in a second. Sea based movement is very very dependent on the idea of latitude, as it was used to assist in finding one's location and then making use of a compass for the purpose of 'Dead Reckoning' to get to a locale. Dead reckoning used a fix, and then plotted a course by basically following a specific heading. This did not account for challenges at sea such as wind direction, rough seas, storms, etc - (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... en.svg.png)

. . . but it did get the job done to a reasonable amount to travel about the Atlantic and get goods and (unfortunately) people to four continents with relative profit. The beautiful thing about latitude is that it has a standard that doesn't give a %*@$ about your nationalism, as it is based on the equator. The mathematics required to discover this I'm sure exist in Toril, and as such the people of Faerun, namely scholars, mages, and sea going merchants would care deeply about it. From this dead reckoning, you can create plot maps much like this one (http://c8.alamy.com/comp/BTJN2X/1544-na ... BTJN2X.jpg) that gives you an idea of how to get to one place from the next - but uh, as you can see, geography is a little iffy.

To the topic of the 19th century. Time became important then due to the locomotive engine. The idea of time zones and different cities adhering to them was simply not needed, as in fact cities and townships of the United States at this point technically kept more accurate time individualized to their area. Travelling by foot, by boat, or by wagon meant little as far as time was concerned. Travelling by train, however, limited your movement to a singular track, and a need for a designated departure and arrival time. To avoid headaches at the station, and to avoid, well, this,

https://media.giphy.com/media/w0UzE5SB0WZeo/giphy.gif


You needed a standardized time. . . . . . quite frankly, as technology has progressed, in the 21st Century we are so dependant on proper time you may not even realize it. If our atomic clocks were to shut off all at once, and we were out of sync for but a second, our cellphones, computers, and many of the services provided by both would shut down. It's kind of wild, eh?
Anyhow... just an fyi.

[electric mayhem]

If you need some further inspiration.

Check out Eratosthenes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eratosthenes



Carl Sagan and Neil Degrasse Tyson presented a great segment in an episode in their respective Cosmos series about this very topic.

[Laughingman]

Meanwhile IRL

[aaron22]

@sharp: thanks. did not really feel like going into all that and you explained it so well. better than i could have for sure.

@laughingman: organized trolling?