Scout class

[blacksoft]

Just curious. Why is Scout Class from Kaedrin content not implemented here?

[NeOmega]

It had a long thread once, but never got in.

I think it is one of the most basic classes there is, and think it definitely should be in, in one way or another. It is as basic as fighter, cleric, wizard, and rogue.

[RaiderOne]

Because any PC that would dip rogue would 99% of the time take scout instead.

[Thorsson]

More importantly, why would we? What does it bring to the table?

Something for sneakers, having relentlessly nerfed them for years?

[blacksoft]

More importantly, why would we? What does it bring to the table?

Roleplay character that is not a rogue, but has roguelike abilities. More Ranger esqu than rogue. Another option for wilderness character with some unique perks.

Another option for hips but needs to be committed to Scout (14 levels)

Also another class with camo.

It has a lot going for it, but is not OP in any sense. It can get SA progression, but need to spend a feat for it and does not have access to rogue's special feats Gets ac and unique survival bonuses. In other words, it has a bit of a combination of some classes such as Ranger and Rogue for those who are looking for those things, but do not want to go Ranger or Rogue.

I like it because it has general bonus feats, ac, SA, hips and good skills all rolled into one. It allows you to make a unique and varied build based on using it as a platform to work off of. Rogue is still more powerful as is Ranger, but I find the Scout's varied abilities enticing. Good for role play.

It is missing some important functions such as tracking and swift tracker which is strange as it's supposed to be a Scout would think it would have those. Also blind fight comes too late to be relevant. It would make sense if it was true seeing coming that late or some other supernatural sight ability.

Finally, Ranger and Rogue can act as a scout but are meant and better for other tasks, the best to fill scout in party should be the Scout class.

It can surely be tweeked still.

[blacksoft]

Plus, I always saw Scout as the spearhead and guide to a party, that which his presence would help his party perform better due to his better tactical understanding of the enemy. This is why I thought it unusual that Kaedrin did not implement teamwork feats for Scout either given freely or provided as option during feat level-up.

If nothing else, this would be a good reason to bring Scout to the table.

[blacksoft]

Because any PC that would dip rogue would 99% of the time take scout instead.

Not sure I agree. Take a look at the skills of Scout vs Rogue and now say that. Scout has slow natural SA, rogue doesn't, the good SA progression comes later on Scout.

Evasion comes later.

What races have rogue as favored class? What about Scout?

[NegInfinity]

What races have rogue as favored class?

Tieflings, Strongheart Halflings and Deep Gnomes.

[blacksoft]

What races have rogue as favored class?

Tieflings, Strongheart Halflings and Deep Gnomes.

Umm...my point was that rogues have plenty of favored races while Scout does not. It was a rhetorical question used to illustrate the point that 99% builds will not be using Scout as splash over Rogue.

[RaiderOne]

Not sure I agree. Take a look at the skills of Scout vs Rogue and now say that. Scout has slow natural SA, rogue doesn't, the good SA progression comes later on Scout.

Yeah it gets evasion at 5 instead of 2 but you get so much more over the rogue at the only loss of the UMD skill and 1 or 2 sneak dice. The extra AC alone is worth throwing out evasion, but as a dip for a melee fighter you would take 7 levels for the +2 AC and only lose out on UMD and 2 BAB. You don't really care for the sneak dice.

Like many classes the concept is sound, and I do like the class. I just think the free AC makes it a bit good. There's quite a few classes Kaedrin has done that suffer from this kind of problem. They need to be adjusted to fit the magic level of the server.

[blacksoft]

Yeah it gets evasion at 5 instead of 2 but you get so much more over the rogue at the only loss of the UMD skill and 1 or 2 sneak dice. The extra AC alone is worth throwing out evasion, but as a dip for a melee fighter you would take 7 levels for the +2 AC and only lose out on UMD and 2 BAB. You don't really care for the sneak dice.

Like many classes the concept is sound, and I do like the class. I just think the free AC makes it a bit good. There's quite a few classes Kaedrin has done that suffer from this kind of problem. They need to be adjusted to fit the magic level of the server.

Losing UMD is no small thing.

You are correct, part of what makes the Scout worthwhile is the ac, but once you are going 7 levels in a class, you are giving up elsewhere. Scout helps a build be more survivable, that is the point of it. I am not sure the ac needs to be adjusted as that is one of the main perks of going Scout. It loses a lot of its charm without it.

I am not arguing that Scout is not a good splash, only that your "99%" builds giving up on rogue splash is unfounded. both rogue and scout are good splashes and you get different things.

[aaron22]

can fix the free ac problem by making it restricted to light armor.

[blacksoft]

can fix the free ac problem by making it restricted to light armor.

I can get behind this.

[aaron22]

what looks bad to me on the class is the 8 bonus feats through 30. that seems a bit steep. and i would make the high progress of sa dice to two feats. first gives 5 SA over 30 and secong gives the remaining 4 SA dice over 30. would also like to see a special feat that if you have track it gives swift track.

[RaiderOne]

UMD is nice, but its another skill investment, if you also want tumble i know what i would choose.

The other problem is from a spellcaster perspective; 4 levels gets you, dash, AC, skills, uncanny dodge, fort boost, a bonus feat (which becomes the +4 caster level choice). if your a light/no armour caster and have good reflex you might take a 5th for evasion and drop 1 CL. Again, the sneak damage is unwanted in this case.

We were having the same problem when looking at the phantom. It becomes a nightmare to give the class what it wants without it becoming a 'why wouldn't you' multiclass option.