Scout class

[blacksoft]

Or perhaps flurry of blows with all small wepons, staff and spear. I notice many enemy scouts use spears, and spears could use some love.

Dex to hit for staff and spear?

[aaron22]

love the thoughts you put into the class. all told though, the game is about killing and not being killed. we can talk all we want about RP, but the game is about killing mobs. to do that, every class needs two things. a way to kill and a way to not be killed. your scout has the second with hips. the problem is, it has no way of killing. it needs to do more damage. way more. without the d6 skirmish it does no damage.

[Zanniej]

This has been discussed before:
viewtopic.php?f=218&t=25886&p=328301

Perhaps there is still some leftover code from the last time it has been discussed. However, if we intend to implement this, it would still need to be discussed by both QC and the DM team.

[Thorsson]

Scout itself, as implemented by Kaedrin, is not too powerful. It gets certain advantages (HiPS, some sneak damage, Camouflage, etc), but in return it also gets disadvantages (medium BAB, no EP or ED, etc). These have already been pointed out, but if you compare 16 levels to Rogue you would say that Rogue gets the better deal as it only needs a dip in SD to get the one real advantage that Scout has. I would just highlight two other things - Scout is a base class with no races having it as a favored class; HiPS comes late at level 14. The class could not really be taken as a dip on BGTSCC.

In the overall Kaedrin Pack it was overpowered, but this was because of other Feats and Classes. Specifically the ability to take 1 level of Dark Lantern to get Epic Precision, 8 levels of Whirling Dervish to get Epic Dodge and the Feats Swift Ambusher and Swift Hunter. None of those are at BGTSCC except WD and that has had Improved Evasion taken away.

Many of the abilities that Scouts get in PnP are related to movement. I don't think these could be implemented in any way in NWN2. Skirmish Damage is not Sneak Attack, but it resembles it in every way and therefore treating it the same seems reasonable. HiPS is neither SD HiPS, nor Ranger HiPS, but HiPS in "natural terrain", which would therefore include caves and tunnels, but not include buildings. However, in the BGTSCC environment, if it wasn't full HiPS then I can't see the class being used.

I should point out to NeOmega that the PnP (and I think Kaedrin) version gets Camouflage (the feat that allows rangers to run while stealthed) already at level 8. It gets the disable device skill, but not set trap, which I think is entirely logical when you consider a Scout's function. I won't labour the point - I don't think the suggestions are either logical or needed changes.

I have a final point. As the class stands it's actually not very attractive - let's say you take 14 levels of Scout to get HiPS and then you decide you have to have EP requiring 10 levels of Rogue, you only have 6 levels left - hard to see how you can make anything very powerful from there. I'd suggest that, if anything, Scout needs some sort of boost, as some of the abilities have little or no use in BGTSCC, like Trackless Step and Flawless Stride and it also gains access to many non-implemented skills.

How about killing two birds with one stone and making it a favored class for Lightfoot Halfling?

[blacksoft]

Scout itself, as implemented by Kaedrin, is not too powerful. It gets certain advantages (HiPS, some sneak damage, Camouflage, etc), but in return it also gets disadvantages (medium BAB, no EP or ED, etc). These have already been pointed out, but if you compare 16 levels to Rogue you would say that Rogue gets the better deal as it only needs a dip in SD to get the one real advantage that Scout has. I would just highlight two other things - Scout is a base class with no races having it as a favored class; HiPS comes late at level 14. The class could not really be taken as a dip on BGTSCC.

In the overall Kaedrin Pack it was overpowered, but this was because of other Feats and Classes. Specifically the ability to take 1 level of Dark Lantern to get Epic Precision, 8 levels of Whirling Dervish to get Epic Dodge and the Feats Swift Ambusher and Swift Hunter. None of those are at BGTSCC except WD and that has had Improved Evasion taken away.

Many of the abilities that Scouts get in PnP are related to movement. I don't think these could be implemented in any way in NWN2. Skirmish Damage is not Sneak Attack, but it resembles it in every way and therefore treating it the same seems reasonable. HiPS is neither SD HiPS, nor Ranger HiPS, but HiPS in "natural terrain", which would therefore include caves and tunnels, but not include buildings. However, in the BGTSCC environment, if it wasn't full HiPS then I can't see the class being used.

[url=http://dnd.arkals?

Or 12 levels Swashbuckler. Would have int to damage

[blacksoft]

This has been discussed before:
viewtopic.php?f=218&t=25886&p=328301

Perhaps there is still some leftover code from the last time it has been discussed.

Unfortunately, I don't have access to go to link

[Zanniej]

This has been discussed before:
viewtopic.php?f=218&t=25886&p=328301

Perhaps there is still some leftover code from the last time it has been discussed.

Unfortunately, I don't have access to go to link

Sorry, didn't realize that.

Scout

Any force on the move, whether it's an army or an adventuring group, needs information about what's ahead and what's behind and, more important, time to prepare for battle. A scout can navigate difficult terrain at good speed, and she specializes in seeing her foe before the opponent ever detects her presence. In a dungeon or in the wild, a scout is seen only when she wants to be.

This is a base class and has 30 levels.

Class Features:

- Hit Die: d8

- Base Attack Bonus: Medium.

- High Saves: Reflex

- Weapon Proficiencies: All Simple and Rogue weapons.

- Armor Proficiencies: Light armor.

- Skill Points: 8 + Int modifier.

- Class Skills: Craft Armor, Craft Weapon, Craf Armor, Disable Device, Hide, Listen, Lore, Move Silently, Search, Spot, Survival, Sense motive and Tumble.

Class Abilities:

Level 1: Trapfinding, Skirmish (+1d6)
Level 2: Battle Fortitude + 1
Level 3: Skirmish (+1d6, +1 AC)
Level 4: Bonus Feat, Uncanny Dodge
Level 5: Evasion, Skirmish (+2d6, +1 AC)
Level 6:
Level 7: Skirmish (+2d6, + 2 AC)
Level 8: Bonus Feat, Camouflage
Level 9: Skirmish (+3d6, +2 AC)
Level 10: Battle Fortitude + 2, Trackless Step,
Level 11: Improved Initative, Skirmish (+3d6, +3 AC)
Level 12: Bonus Feat
Level 13: Skirmish (+4d6, +3 AC)
Level 14:
Level 15: Skirmish (+4d6, +4 AC)
Level 16: Bonus Feat
Level 17: Skirmish (+5d6, +4 AC
Level 18: Hide in Plain Sight
Level 19: Skirmish (+5d6, +5 AC)
Level 20: Bonus Feat, Blind-Fight, Battle Fortitude + 3
Level 21: Skirmish (+6d6, +5 AC)
Level 22:
Level 23: Bonus Epic Feat, Skirmish (+6d6, +6 AC)
Level 24:
Level 25: Skirmish (+7d6, +6 AC)
Level 26: Bonus Epic Feat
Level 27: Skirmish (+7d6, +7 AC)
Level 28:
Level 29: Bonus Epic Feat Battle Fortitude + 4, Skirmish (+8d6, +7 AC)
Level 30:

Bonus feats are: Bonus feats are: Alertness, Cleave, Combat Expertise, Manyshot, Toughness, Skill Focus, Dodge, Mobility, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Improved Combat Expertise, Quickdraw, Rapid Reload, Track, Spring Attack, Point Blank Shot, Frontline Archer, Deadeye Shot, Brutal Throw, Improved Skirmish, Furious Charge, Improved Charge, Dire Charge, Epic Precision, Epic Ability Score Increase, Epic Superior Initative, Epic Prowess, Epic Energy Resistance, Epic Toughness, Epic Skill Focus, Epic Reflexes, Epic Will, Epic Dodge, Epic Damage Reduction, Epic Armored Skin.

Scouts gain bonus epic feats at 23rd, 26th, and 29th level.

- Battle Fortitude: At 2nd level, a scout gains a +1 bonus on Fortitude saves. This bonus increases to +2 at 11th, +3 at 20th, and +4 at 29th.

- Skirmisher: A scout relies on mobility to deal extra damage and improve her defense. She deals an extra 1d6 points of damage on all atacks she makes during any round in which she moves at least 10 feet. This extra damage increases by 1d6 for every four levels gained above 1st. The extra damage only applies against living creatures that have a discernable anamtomy. Creatures immune from from critical hits are not considered vulnerable to Skirmishing. Scouts can apply this extra damage to ranged attacks made while skirmishing, but only if the target is within 30 feet. A 3rd level scout gains a +1 competence bonus to AC during any in which she moves at least 10 feet. This bonus improves by 1 for every four levels gained. A scout loses this ability when wearing medium or heavy armor, or when encumbered.

Exclusive Feats: Swift Ambusher, Swift Hunter and Improved Skirmisher

Imp. Skirmish
Type of Feat: General
Prerequisites: Scout level 3
Specifics: If you move at least 20 feet away from where you were at the start of your turn, your skirmish damage increases by 2d6 and your competence bonus to AC from skirmish improves by 2.
Use: Automatatic

Swift Ambusher
Type of Feat: General
Prerequisites: Scout level 3, Sneak Attack 1d6
Specifics: Your rogue and scout levels stack for the purpose of determining the extra damage and bonus to Armor Class granted when skirmishing. For example, a 4th-level scout/7th-level rogue would deal an extra 3d6 points of damage and gain a +3 competence bonus to AC when skirmishing, as if she were an 11th-level scout.
Use: Automatatic

Swift Hunter
Type of Feat: General
Prerequisites: Scout level 3, Ranger 1
Specifics: Your ranger and scout levels stack for the purpose of determining the extra damage and bonus to Armor Class granted when skirmishing. For example, a 4th-level scout/1st-level ranger would deal an extra 2d6 points of damage and gain a +1 competence bonus to AC when skirmishing, as if she were a 5th-level scout.
Use: Automatatic

Again, this is (very) old stuff. I'm not sure if it would be approved, what the issues where, and if any development has ever been done.

It's based on the Complete Adventurer.

[aaron22]

would that d6 skirmish apply to all attacks in the round following the move of 10'. 10 is not far in the game, but would be kind of silly and annoying. i also see you did not give it the freedom of movement skill. think you might want that.

[RaiderOne]

would that d6 skirmish apply to all attacks in the round following the move of 10'. 10 is not far in the game, but would be kind of silly and annoying. i also see you did not give it the freedom of movement skill. think you might want that.

I think this is because the class is meant to use it mounted, or with weapons such as javelins, it is by no means meant to a stand there and stab ability like sneak attack.

[Zanniej]

It wasn't my idea. I stole it from Rasael

But I'm guessing that it's been removed due to being OP ... ?

And I think the class' intention is to stick and move ... That, coupled with the movement speed increase would make a logical class (though very powerful I think)

[RaiderOne]

One thing to remember is the moment based abilities of this class would not function well in caves and other interiors.

As a class I think the concepts are sound but the game engine does not support its mobility based playstyle. It would probably be better to turn this into a ranger kit or just abandon the idea due to already having the very similar wilderness stalker.

[RaiderOne]

Oh I forgot to mention; by the 3.5 rules you don't get to make more than a single attack unless you take a full attack action, which means the skirmisher bonus is only ever a single attack.

[blacksoft]

As a class I think the concepts are sound but the game engine does not support its mobility based playstyle. It would probably be better to turn this into a ranger kit or just abandon the idea due to already having the very similar wilderness stalker.

I would agree if the wilderness stalker was a base class that progressed (and did not have prereqs), but it isn't and doesn't. Especially if it was tweeked a bit.

But, then classes that use WS would lose out, so that is not an option. Either way, would like to see it progress past 10 with some extras. In either case, it still seems that WS can't substitute the Scout class.

[aaron22]

as a med bab class restricted to light armor. this class is not OP simply because it cannot effectively deal damage at all. the idea is good but that concept is not solid. if limited to a single attack the skirmish damage would need to be at least doubled to make up for the negatives.

i would like to see it implemented and bringing it in "as is" is fine. can always tweek it. i think if you compared it to rogue and even phantom, it is way below standard. should it be as good as rogue? no. should it be as good as phantom? probably. how many threads have been put up that argue rogue is not up to par? and this is worse. at least it has hips. that solves a lot of problems.

[RaiderOne]

as a med bab class restricted to light armor. this class is not OP simply because it cannot effectively deal damage at all. the idea is good but that concept is not solid. if limited to a single attack the skirmish damage would need to be at least doubled to make up for the negatives.

That's how the class works in the 3.5 pnp rules, which work quite differently in many ways to the nwn2 implementation.

It also gets AC bonuses that when stacked with light armour become higher than heavy armour.