Dual boxing is cheese

[MrPsion]

I’d expect that if such a system was implemented, then there would be exceptions for those of us who would be affected.

I'm going to think about how this can be implemented for gamers living together who demonstrate they're multiple human beings and post suggestions for implementation later. This thread is pretty toxic so otherwise I'm checking out, thanks for your feedback.

And actually, now I think I have it.

Instead of modifying code for treasure chests perhaps dev can modify code for the follow command such that it no longer works on PCs w/ same IP. Would this be acceptable to you, TarnishedSoul?

[NegInfinity]

People with more characters getting more loot is a direct consequence of changes to the treasure chests. Which were done to make them more fair - so anyone who opens a chest gets a treasure.

More fair but it makes the game less edgy. Feast or famine is fun I think.

Anyway having no real care about dual boxing I'll leave it to the admins as usual.

With previous system I had a fun encounter once when somebody tried to kill my character upon encountering them in a dungeon, just so all the chests will be theirs.

Fun part was that they used flame arrows and my character was pretty much fireproof at that point. Extra fun part is that my character didn't even want chests.

On other hand, I had someone fly into rage and start sending me angry OOC tells because my character location was hidden, and so "I wasted their time" by being in the dungeon.

[TarnishedSoul]

No, MrPsion, it’s not acceptable, although I appreciate the effort to brainstorm. What if I want to auto-follow my husband’s PC across a map while I go downstairs and feed the cats? Why am I getting punished for the perceived unfair advantages of others?

I’m of the stance that this is not a problem that needs any sort of resolution. But if changes are made, then I won’t accept a crippling blow to my way of game life simply so that others feel better about themselves over what amounts to little more than pixels.

My husband and I, and players who are roommates, shouldn’t have to prove that we’re separate human beings in order to play a video game.

[Deathgrowl]

I think multiboxing should be highly frowned upon. It's difficult to enforce anything about it, but in my view it is extremely poor form, as it gives one individual player an objective (not just percieved) advantage over other individual players. Mechanically and even in RP.

Two players from the same IP is fine, though. That's still two players, after all.

[Lambe]

If somebody can effectively multibox rp/loot/pvp and not bring the quality of the server down then I'd be highly impressed. Kudos to them, that takes some degree of management that can take away the fun in playing. Only thing I'd disagree on with multiboxing is the use of bots/macros. You pay, you play. I think that's fair.

[MrPsion]

Fair enough, TarnishedSoul. I will not interfere with the feeding of the cats. Staff may consider my proposal withdrawn.

[NeOmega]

Not to mention the immortality aspect. Dual boxing allows you to raise yourself. So no more pesky XP penalties either. Hell, you don't even have to interrupt your dual boxxing loot run... just use a raise undead scroll... and back on your way.

Is that fair, neginfinity?

Yes. It is fair.

Your whole argument is "the other player is my enemy and I must compete with them" reasoning.

No, that's the argument you are trying to pin on me.

If there are two different characters, they'll get more loot. They'll be able to raise each other. It doesn't matter whether they're the same player or not. They're on the same team so they're supposed to help each other.

It doesn't matter, does it?

Let's ask the QC team, when they are thinking of balance, if they consider dual boxxing when balancing out the various classes.

My husband and I, and players who are roommates, shouldn’t have to prove that we’re separate human beings in order to play a video game.

The enforcement hasn't even been discussed yet, and already you are sure you will be punished for being innocent.

But, btw, the rules state you do have to be present when playing. So if you are on auto-follow behind your husband for hours at a time, you are clearly breaking the rules. If it is just to feed the cats, then, maybe you both can stop for a minute?

Honestly, is this even an issue? How often do you two auto-follow each other? Are you just trying to come up with a counter argument for the sake of counter argument?



How else do I explain this?
This is a game. This is a game DESIGNED by the QC team considering each player controls one character at a time.

An immense amount of time and effort has been put into BALANCE.

Why are they putting so much effort into balance? Is it just to make *me* happy? Is it because NeOmega is so jealous of everybody else's power?
The accusations here of my intentions, are, as always, ridiculous.
If someone is CHEATING, let's call it what it is. If someone is RAISING THEMSELVES, THAT IS CHEATING, then they should be de-leveled at the least.

Why even worry about balance? Why even worry about making the classes balanced?

There is no need to worry about balance etc, after all, this is just a RP server.

Plus, it's not like it will take a huge chunk of DM time to enforce.
1. dual boxxing is pretty rare.
2. it's not against the rules, currently, and it is still rare, (because most people aren't cheese-head cheaters)
3. it is pretty easy to spot, and once it is against the rules, it will often be the countermeasures a cheater would take, to try to hide the fact they were dual boxxing that would out them.
4. being against the rules would discourage it, making it even more rare, and it would discourage a player from even designing two characters to dual box together for perfect ultimate power synergy.

[NegInfinity]

BALANCE.

DND is not balanced and is not fair. Some classes are stronger. Some creatures are tougher.
Your character only deserves to die screaming, and not to have equal chance at some situation.
It is your job to figure out how to make the character useful or make them achieve their goals.

"balancing" belongs to the realm of competetive mmos and mobas, where people should have equal chance of killing someone else withotu thinking too much about it, because thinking is too hard. This game is supposed to be different. You're supposed to use your brain, and being an RP server it is supposed to be about stories.

You pick your race, class, playstyle and you deal with consequences of your decision. That's how it should be. Also, somebody who has more resources to dedicate to playing will have more stuff than you. That's how it will always be.

--edit--

One more thing.

"Balance" argument is usually brought up when the game is competitive. Are you competing with other players using amount of loot? And even in the case of competitive games there are usually tiers of characters with different difficulty of playing - to accommodate for individual preferences and to provide something people who want more challenge would like to play.

Rather than screaming "there should be balance" (which is false), a better idea would be to take a step back, and reevaluate what exactly you find upsetting about you. Loot is generally useless and serial looter with more time on their hand will always have more things. Dualboxing or not. A merchnat will have even more things than a looter (see Karond's trading guides).

The issue here is that it doesn't affect you in any way, unless you take offense at them having more stuff (which is envy/jealosy). Loot and gold doesn't have any significant power or use in the game right now.

[AlexBnt]

Wait wait wait. We are allowed to multibox?

*downloads Synergy on four computers*

[NeOmega]

BALANCE.

DND is not balanced and is not fair. Some classes are stronger. Some creatures are tougher.
Your character only deserves to die screaming, and not to have equal chance at some situation.
It is your job to figure out how to make the character useful or make them achieve their goals.

"balancing" belongs to the realm of competetive mmos and mobas, where people should have equal chance of killing someone else withotu thinking too much about it, because thinking is too hard. This game is supposed to be different. You're supposed to use your brain, and being an RP server it is supposed to be about stories.

You pick your race, class, playstyle and you deal with consequences of your decision. That's how it should be. Also, somebody who has more resources to dedicate to playing will have more stuff than you. That's how it will always be.

I nominate Neginifinity to be head of the QC team. He seems to get what this server is all about.

The issue here is that it doesn't affect you in any way, unless you take offense at them having more stuff (which is envy/jealosy). Loot and gold doesn't have any significant power or use in the game right now.

If I wanted more stuff, I would have not reported the exploit that could get me 200 gold per second.

If I wanted more power, I would have never reported the exploit that gave me unlimited health.

Both of those, I reported within an hour of discovering them.

You are way, way off base.

Do you know why I reported the "exploits" (I could, possibly argue, with the 200 gold per second exploit, that I was simply a great merchant, making great IC buying and selling decisions).

It's because when things are broken, the game is less fun. When I found the exploit, gold suddenly seemed pointless to me, the whole game kind of felt pointless, knowing I could rack up 144,000+ gold an hour.

And I could easily do it with never being caught. And I could justify to myself that it's just me being a good merchant, making good money. And I could win every auction every time, and be the big, big winner. Nobody would ever know.

And then I could claim, "I'm not hurting anybody" Hell, I could even be an "honest cheat", and only buy from avernus with my cheat-loot, so as not to hurt those who weren't "as good as me" at this game from losing auction items.

I resent your constant attacks on my character and my intentions. In every thread you show up in, I can be sure you will accuse me of darker, ulterior motives. Every time.

[NegInfinity]

Wait wait wait. We are allowed to multibox?

*downloads Synergy on four computers*

Keep in mind that controlling more than two personality at once is difficult. I could manage three distinc characters (summons) at once top, but when they had to interact with a crowd, things got confusing.

[NegInfinity]

I nominate Neginifinity to be head of the QC team. He seems to get what this server is all about.

Trying to be sarcastic normally means the other party has ran out of the arguments.

I know what I enjoyed about the server the most, and I remember the most amazing experiences that I felt at the time were better than any single-player game I ever played.

Your ideas have nothing to do with them, would not contribute to creating anything similar, and in fact are similar to ideas held by people who are responsible for the most unpleasant OOC conversations I ever hard here.

And that's why I reject them. It is this simple.

You take an issue at something I feel simply does not matter, and try to take a big deal out of it, even though it is largely irrelevant for an amazing experience. However then you also propose a "solution" which can backfire at legitimate players.

No, thanks.

P.S. And please don't try "What QC says" thing when you're not part of it.... If Admins pass a ruling or new rules I'll either roll with it or leave if my interests no longer align with the ideas behind the rules. However, you're just another user.

[AlexBnt]

Wait wait wait. We are allowed to multibox?

*downloads Synergy on four computers*

Keep in mind that controlling more than two personality at once is difficult. I could manage three distinc characters (summons) at once top, but when they had to interact with a crowd, things got confusing.

My other characters happen to be mute, their tongues were cut out. They also are very lazy and don't like to sign unless they have to. They generally just let the one non mute character talk for them unless he happens to say something they don't like.

[NeOmega]

I nominate Neginifinity to be head of the QC team. He seems to get what this server is all about.

Trying to be sarcastic normally means the other party has ran out of the arguments.

If you says so, bro.

Your ideas... ....are similar to ideas held by people who are responsible for the most unpleasant OOC conversations I ever hard here.
.

My ideas are similar to ideas people you got in OOC arguments with on the server (what a surprise, you get in OOC arguments on the server, you are such a pleasant person, too), so therefore, you opposes them?

And you constantly tell me about logic and arguments?

Do you even play anymore, bro?

[TarnishedSoul]

I’ll start by clarifying that my responses, as quoted, were direct responses to MrPsion and his suggestions. I do not appreciate my words being taken out of context and used in some sort of acrimonious rebuttal.

But, since they were, and questions have been asked / remarks have been made: NeOmega, could you please provide the section of the rules where they state that a player must be present? I imagine you’re referring to the AFK grinding section, which prohibits actions that result in a material gain when used. Using auto-follow to cross a map while one person uses the toilet, feeds the cats, or puts laundry in the dryer does not result in a material gain. Simply put: I’m not going to stop in an area so I can attend to RL things when I can auto-follow. My PC will get stopped at the transition anyhow, so the point is moot. But I could ask YMHM to pop me through it - and I won’t feel bad for doing so.

Lastly, if you make a suggestion and cannot react well to counter arguments, then perhaps you should privately submit your complaints for the staff to review. I can, and will, provide an opposing view if I feel it’s warranted. Changes that would negatively effect my gameplay, and the gameplay of my husband, will be challenged. You’re welcome to make what suggestions you want, but you should be prepared to address counters in a respectful manner.