Dual boxing is cheese

[NeOmega]

I’ll start by clarifying that my responses, as quoted, were direct responses to MrPsion and his suggestions. I do not appreciate my words being taken out of context and used in some sort of acrimonious rebuttal.

But, since they were, and questions have been asked / remarks have been made: NeOmega, could you please provide the section of the rules where they state that a player must be present? I imagine you’re referring to the AFK grinding section, which prohibits actions that result in a material gain when used. Using auto-follow to cross a map while one person uses the toilet, feeds the cats, or puts laundry in the dryer does not result in a material gain. Simply put: I’m not going to stop in an area so I can attend to RL things when I can auto-follow. My PC will get stopped at the transition anyhow, so the point is moot. But I could ask YMHM to pop me through it - and I won’t feel bad for doing so.

Lastly, if you make a suggestion and cannot react well to counter arguments, then perhaps you should privately submit your complaints for the staff to review. I can, and will, provide an opposing view if I feel it’s warranted. Changes that would negatively effect my gameplay, and the gameplay of my husband, will be challenged. You’re welcome to make what suggestions you want, but you should be prepared to address counters in a respectful manner.

I did not mean to offend you, but yes, I am referring to AFK grinding rules.
I do not believe my rebuttal to you was "some sort of acrimonious rebuttal." I would like for you to point out where you felt hostility or acrimony from me.

I was not implying you are a rule breaker, I was saying that this would not affect you, obviously. Intentions are what count for everything with dual boxxing. Dual boxxing should not be banned if people want to RP, or even if people want to dungeon crawl with others.

However, if it is being used for double loot and no death penalties, than it is CHEATING.

You aren't a dual boxxer, so you have nothing to fear at all.

This game is designed where one person controls one character at a time.

[Aspect of Sorrow]

This game is designed where one person controls one character at a time.

It ships out of the box with support of multiple characters in the same party to control.

[Maecius]

At this time, it's not explicitly against the rules to play the game at the same time from multiple computers. The DMs can discuss the matter if they feel that's something that should change.

That being said, it is against the rules to exploit the server, to metagame, to AFK grind, to grief other players, etc., etc.

If someone appears to be using multiple computers to log into multiple characters and is doing so in such a fashion that it's negatively impacting the server's gaming or roleplay environment, or are using it to directly achieve mechanical advantage over other players (by PVPing people, etc.), then the DMs are 100% equipped to deal with the problematic behavior(s).

Just report any behavior (whether it's related to dual boxing or not) you think is mean-spirited, unfair, or openly exploitative to the DMs. Preferably by PMs, so that you can get them the name of the individual behind a possible breach of rules. They can investigate the situation from there, and take appropriate disciplinary action on a case-by-case basis depending on the severity of the "crime" in question.

[Lambe]

...than it is CHEATING.

Is it, though? At worst it's metagaming, sure. Min/maxing's probably right there too. Not to mention there's twinking. Let's set rules for those too once and for all.

Cheese I can understand but cheating? I don't think anybody's really being cheated out of anything by this issue.

[NeOmega]

At this time, it's not explicitly against the rules to play the game at the same time from multiple computers. The DMs can discuss the matter if they feel that's something that should change.

That being said, it is against the rules to exploit the server, to metagame, to AFK grind, to grief other players, etc., etc.

If someone appears to be using multiple computers to log into multiple characters and is doing so in such a fashion that it's negatively impacting the server's gaming or roleplay environment, or are using it to directly achieve mechanical advantage over other players (by PVPing people, etc.), then the DMs are 100% equipped to deal with the problematic behavior(s).

Just report any behavior (whether it's related to dual boxing or not) you think is mean-spirited, unfair, or openly exploitative to the DMs. Preferably by PMs, so that you can get them the name of the individual behind a possible breach of rules. They can investigate the situation from there, and take appropriate disciplinary action on a case-by-case basis depending on the severity of the "crime" in question.

cool. im cool with that.

[Pimple]

Can I just say that cheese is the best thing ever.

[AlexBnt]

The Rangers of Power are ready to fight evil!

[NeOmega]

The Rangers of Power are ready to fight evil!

our sponsors have informed us they would be a more successful brand if you had greater ethnic diversity. Keeping in mind the expendable wealth of the gnome demographic, who are the greatest purchasers of toys, I'd suggest a gnome ranger as the leader. Also, need more gender diversity.

[AlexBnt]

Hidden: show

The Rangers of Power are ready to fight evil!

our sponsors have informed us they would be a more successful brand if you had greater ethnic diversity. Keeping in mind the expendable wealth of the gnome demographic, who are the greatest purchasers of toys, I'd suggest a gnome ranger as the leader. Also, need more gender diversity.

Sorry, I meant to say The Half-Elf Rangers of Power.

It's a new guild, anyone can join. The only requirement is they have to be a character that is played by me.

[Aspect of Sorrow]

they have to be a character that is played by me.

Low standards.

[CleverUsername123]

At this time, it's not explicitly against the rules to play the game at the same time from multiple computers. The DMs can discuss the matter if they feel that's something that should change.

That being said, it is against the rules to exploit the server, to metagame, to AFK grind, to grief other players, etc., etc.

If someone appears to be using multiple computers to log into multiple characters and is doing so in such a fashion that it's negatively impacting the server's gaming or roleplay environment, or are using it to directly achieve mechanical advantage over other players (by PVPing people, etc.), then the DMs are 100% equipped to deal with the problematic behavior(s).

Just report any behavior (whether it's related to dual boxing or not) you think is mean-spirited, unfair, or openly exploitative to the DMs. Preferably by PMs, so that you can get them the name of the individual behind a possible breach of rules. They can investigate the situation from there, and take appropriate disciplinary action on a case-by-case basis depending on the severity of the "crime" in question.

wait so I can't get a second PC and RP as two people? does that negatively impact anyone?

there goes my entire plan for the next five years.

[Endelyon]

At this time, it's not explicitly against the rules to play the game at the same time from multiple computers. The DMs can discuss the matter if they feel that's something that should change.

That being said, it is against the rules to exploit the server, to metagame, to AFK grind, to grief other players, etc., etc.

If someone appears to be using multiple computers to log into multiple characters and is doing so in such a fashion that it's negatively impacting the server's gaming or roleplay environment, or are using it to directly achieve mechanical advantage over other players (by PVPing people, etc.), then the DMs are 100% equipped to deal with the problematic behavior(s).

Just report any behavior (whether it's related to dual boxing or not) you think is mean-spirited, unfair, or openly exploitative to the DMs. Preferably by PMs, so that you can get them the name of the individual behind a possible breach of rules. They can investigate the situation from there, and take appropriate disciplinary action on a case-by-case basis depending on the severity of the "crime" in question.

wait so I can't get a second PC and RP as two people?

there goes my entire plan for the next five years.

We've actually had at least one player that has done this in the past to a fabulously entertaining result. For anyone considering it, just keep in mind our rules about sharing information between characters--your second character doesn't automatically know everything the first does.

[CleverUsername123]

At this time, it's not explicitly against the rules to play the game at the same time from multiple computers. The DMs can discuss the matter if they feel that's something that should change.

That being said, it is against the rules to exploit the server, to metagame, to AFK grind, to grief other players, etc., etc.

If someone appears to be using multiple computers to log into multiple characters and is doing so in such a fashion that it's negatively impacting the server's gaming or roleplay environment, or are using it to directly achieve mechanical advantage over other players (by PVPing people, etc.), then the DMs are 100% equipped to deal with the problematic behavior(s).

Just report any behavior (whether it's related to dual boxing or not) you think is mean-spirited, unfair, or openly exploitative to the DMs. Preferably by PMs, so that you can get them the name of the individual behind a possible breach of rules. They can investigate the situation from there, and take appropriate disciplinary action on a case-by-case basis depending on the severity of the "crime" in question.

wait so I can't get a second PC and RP as two people?

there goes my entire plan for the next five years.

We've actually had at least one player that has done this in the past to a fabulously entertaining result. For anyone considering it, just keep in mind our rules about sharing information between characters--your second character doesn't automatically know everything the first does.

oh, yay. now all I have to do is commandeer my younger sister's PC, install NWN2 on it, get a second CD key, and figure out how to play two characters at once.

maybe by just making one a fighter, point and click adventure.

[Sapper Woody]

I had fun dual boxing for a bit. Can't quite do it right now, as my office is under construction, so I just have my laptop to play on. I couldn't quite play both charaters fighting (they never were together grinding or looting), so one would usually grind while the other RP'd. I had the two characters RPing with the same group occasionally.

But if my main character got into "deep RP", then I'd log the other off so I could focus on the good RP.

I had fun with it, but honestly, it was more of a hassle than it was rewarding. Even having the two RP with each other to get RP XP when no one else was available felt stupid, so once I tried it once, I didn't do it again.

With all that being said, if someone dual boxes to get more loot, I don't see how that affects me. Except maybe makes more mid-level loot available at the auction, and driving down prices, so new players can get gear easier. So, in a way it's a good thing. If one person has several million gold, but nothing to spend it on because they have everything they need, how is that any better than my character, who currently has 300,000 gold and has nothing to spend it on?

As far as avoiding the xp penalty for death, I don't see that as too bad a thing, either. If they're dual boxing and looting, they're not exactly in character, and it doesn't affect anyone else's story at all.

In the end, I guess I'm just apathetic to it, and don't see it as anything that needs to be addressed.

[Thorsson]

As far as avoiding the xp penalty for death, I don't see that as too bad a thing, either. If they're dual boxing and looting, they're not exactly in character, and it doesn't affect anyone else's story at all.

That's not really the issue. That behaviour would be against the server rules.

This is probably the true problem - while you can dual box and remain withing the server rules, it's all too easy/tempting to step outside them. Unless the server rules change then I think it would make sense to ban this as well. Yes, it's difficult to police, but then so are many of the existing rules.

The argument that it doesn't affect other players (arguably) could also be made about some of the existing rules.