The Elephant in the Room overpowered PCs RP HELP

[Thayvian]

One of the biggest concerns on any sever that I log in is "Established" characters level 20 and up.

Most of my youth I have been playing D&D I have read 90% of Forgotten Realms books, and campaign guides through out the years. I know more about FR than most of my nerdy friends.

Anyways in my games as a youth. We never at any point got past level 15. Even long campaigns reaching level 6 was almost never a thing.

Why because the DMs in those campaigns were very good at understanding that a level 5 Wizard or Fighter is essentially god like.

I think the Original BG 1 your evil brother lead Armies and was like level 5 or 6 or something been a long time since i played the first one.

A level 5 could wipe out an army of regular soldiers with careful planning. Or a wizard at level 5 could bring down a city.

Drizzt Do'Urden
Home City: Menzoberranzan
Alignment: Chaotic Good
Race: Drow
Class:
Fighter 10/Barbarian 1/Ranger 5

Elminster:
Wizard‎: ‎24
Rogue‎: ‎2
Fighter‎: ‎1

Elminster is by far one of the most potent spell casters in all of the Realms.

The above characters are gods in FR lore. Well as close as a god as you can get.

My question is given the Whimsical often nonsensical actions of other players to your own Narrative ideas story. How do you Effectively RP this encountering GOD like characters everywhere?

The people that RP these characters sometimes ACT like they are gods. Why not they are level 30. Now this happens in almost every NWN 1 and NWN 2 sever I have ever seen.

Higher levels sometimes do whatever they like and as a lower level you have to accept their RP or in some cases die or deal with sever consequences to your RP/FUN/Time. Which than encourages lower levels to do the same thing when they become higher levels.

I just find it Difficult to enjoy roleplay knowing that everyone around is Elminster it becomes a huge issue. How do you RP when a character can essentially kill you at a whim. Or Force you to RP there way because of their level.

If your like "I'm a threat in my own right and not to be trifled with" they say things like.

"I've slain dragons and gods" And BAM RP suspension of disbelief just went out the window. IE it's NOT FUN ANYMORE.

The Gameplay Seems to not reflect the lore.

I do know this is an issue because on nearly every sever I've seen it first hand. Been abused by higher levels have quit severs because of this and seen it happen to others, and because DMs on most severs I've been to encourage people to Start New characters.

This is not a complaint.. Since being negative in anyway shape or form in today's cult like culture is tantamount to a hate crime.

What I am asking for is HELP ROLE PLAYING here when you don't want to deal with Gods every time you walk out the inn door. And like in other Severs I don't want to have to be forced around simply because someone has YEARS ago reached the cap.

Regardless I need help with Roleplaying this situation. I should not have to be always forced to RP their way simply because of there level. Or have to deal with the Over confidence and throwing their weight around. It's BAD role play. It ruins the game for newer players and It's really difficult to maintain suspension of disbelieve. And I stress this has happened on this sever and every other sever both first hand and watching others have it happen to them. Multiple times. Since the inception of NWN1.

Not a complaint. RP help. What are you suppose to do when you encounter the Weight these characters through around?

I feel it's game breaking bad in some cases. Especially for an RP sever. And it's really insanely difficult to take them or their character seriously. A level 30 that can kill dragons but is afraid of guards. None of this makes a lot of sense.


on a personal note. If you've been level 30 for years retire your character. Make new ones. That's just my OP and a suggestion to be ignored or not at your own leisure.

[aaron22]

you bring up good points and we discuss this here often. IMO it is not the level of the characters that is the elephant though. we are all immortal. that is greater than god-like.

but i just digress from these philosophies. its a game and a wonderful place to have this kind of fantasy experience with such a diverse amount of personalities. the server is amazing. people are incredible. the admin is thoughtful. and the staff is hard working. these outweigh any of the problems that "the game" will create.

its not perfect. cant be. but its really good. really really good.

perspective friend. have fun and I look forward to RPing with you in game. we can make it work. you'll love it.

edit: as far as how do i tie our levels with that of an elminister or drizzt, i guess i just bring them up to a level near our top end. i guess drizzt would be a level 30 or 31 but with a really good player behind him that has ridiculous rolls. elminister would be closer to 40 and has feats that are inaccessible to us. epicer feats

[Valefort]

Consider PCs as being half their levels then admit that there are inconsistencies that cannot be solved (killing dragons, dracoliches and balor repeatedly) and RP around those. It will save you headaches.

[flipside43]

Consider PCs as being half their levels then admit that there are inconsistencies that cannot be solved (killing dragons, dracoliches and balor repeatedly) and RP around those. It will save you headaches.

As an alternative as I find this method gives me a headache myself, I just consider everything scales towards epics. When 15 was the max power level for high level characters, now it's 30. So Elminster would be 50ish. Just move everything over in the spectrum. It's all relative, power wise.

[Thayvian]

Consider PCs as being half their levels then admit that there are inconsistencies that cannot be solved (killing dragons, dracoliches and balor repeatedly) and RP around those. It will save you headaches.

As an alternative as I find this method gives me a headache myself, I just consider everything scales towards epics. When 15 was the max power level for high level characters, now it's 30. So Elminster would be 50ish. Just move everything over in the spectrum. It's all relative, power wise.

None of that really helps RP when higher levels through their weight at you or other lower levels. Or ignoring their overconfidence. Or ignoring the fact they don't know your level. Meaning you could be an arch mage.

When two people meet in Real life men especially they are cautious if the other seems to be hostile. Why. Because in real life we have no level. So why is this basic understanding that all people could be dangerous not observed?

I image the mountain from Game of thrones would be very difficult to fight in a wrestling match. But in a street brawl where I have access to sticks, weapons, objects etc. Dirt in the eye. Skin, bone muscle, and membranes are only so thick. Here is an example. from the Film Noir The BRICK. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDyFh0x_ygM

I suppose my point is that . I think that a lot of issues stem from forgetting that people are dangerous. And they are Mortal. That A level 1 could kill you in your sleep. and that A level 30 is not invulnerable from mortality. Yet the idea of Mortality seems to be foreign. Maybe if we had Perma Death and a level 10 cap people would be more cautious of others.

It would help stabilize a lot of issues with a much lower level cap. And complete re working of Items and economy.

I think that as a merchant character some of stuff in my inventory should not really be there. Level 9 spells Thousands of Gold Coins when people are facing hunger famine plague and iron shortages. It does not make a lot of sense either.

Anyways Just curious how everyone RP's around this stuff or just out right ignores it.

[NeOmega]

i was thinking about this a lot last night.

it would take a major design overhaul, but really, i think the sever would be better if broken into "pockets" separated by harder areas, and then no more nexus to anywhere, just your current pocket. auctions would also be separated, and muling in the nexus forbidden.

it would be something like this, but hard to explain without a chart.

levels 1-3 would be "pocketed" around baldurs gate. The stores would carry +2 gear, at best, and an auction that does not take items greater than 10,000 in value. The areas within 1 or 2 transitions would be cr 0-3. the 0-3 pocket dungeons would have chests that stop giving loot at level 5. within three transitions would be cr 6 areas. the cr6 areas ill call borders, they would have no cities or merchants, and they would stop giving loot at level 6.

past the cr6 areas would be the 4-6 pocket. perhaps the fai. this would have merchants seliing +3 gear at best. the auction would sell nothing beyond 20000 in value. the dungeons in the area would be cr4-6, and stop gving loot at level 7.

then their would be another set of border areas, these would be or more like culminating in a cr 11 area...

beyond those would be the 7-9 pocket. perhaps centered around beregost...

you can kind of see the pattern.

the 7-9 pocket would be surrounded by cr14 borders...

to the 10-12 pocket, surrounded by cr 18 areas...

the 13-15 pocket, surrounde by cr 22 areas...

when i say surrounded, i mean the areas lead to a chokepoint, graduating in difficulty, with the chokepoint area being the high cr border rating.

the idea would be to encourage players of like wise levels to stay in certain areas. the borders would be a challenge, and basically a requirement to pass and progress. soloing past them would be very difficult, if not impossible, without a team. going back to a lower pocket would still be dangerous, (but not as), but pointless to go two pockets below your level, xcept for rp.

i would also just drop the quests. they are pretty ridiculous, and add little to the rp except making everybody sound silly, "trying to find the hin's keys?" not cool. i read in the design doc they are toying with randomly generated quests... ...so, yeah.

with the pocket system, id also ease the PvP rules....

[NegInfinity]

For whatever reason, BG has different power level for the creatures, meaning Level 15 Drizzt would've been badly humliated by some of the minor monsters here.

Likewise, original Never Winter 2 campaing had a very different power scale compared to Baldur's Gate 1. And then there's an issue where original BG uses different mechanics - they're DND 2, and not 3.5.

Now...

How do you Effectively RP this encountering GOD like characters everywhere?

There are two ways to go about it:
1. You don't know how powerful they are.
2. After encountering something ridiculously powerful few days ago, you are jaded and no longer care.

The people that RP these characters sometimes ACT like they are gods.

Ah. Here's the problem, though. You can kill those people at level 1. Through power of friends, money and assassins. T

Higher levels sometimes do whatever they like and as a lower level you have to accept their RP or in some cases die or deal with sever consequences to your RP/FUN/Time. Which than encourages lower levels to do the same thing when they become higher levels.

The way I see it, lower level need to be more clever about it. First, you can employ more powerful people. Second, sometimes low level characters can kill high level one because it got overconfident.

Also...

"I've slain dragons and gods"

"Uh-huh. And i'm a god of the realms and creators of everything. Get lost buddy, before I call guards on you"

What are you suppose to do when you encounter the Weight these characters through around?

Scenario #1: Someone approaches your char and claim that they're all powerful and almighty. Default assumption is that this person is an overconfident village idiot.
Scenario #2: They actually demonstrate their power, but are not hostile. That depends on your character and their motives. In my case "worshipping" the wannabe demigod will never be on the list, however.
Scenairo #3: They demonstrate their power, but are hostile. Weasel out of the encounter using whatever way, and sic more powerful people on them. Assassins or law. Guards in this game are strong enough to beat demigdos.

In gneeral, however, the right idea is to drop BG1/2 power scale and just accept that this is an alternative realm where people of such powerful are much more common.... but are not gods. Your average city guard might as well be fighter 20.

And somebody like Ragefast might as well be level 30. And gods are level 60.

[Lockonnow]

Ragefast lvl 30 no i will say lvl 16 if so maybe lower

[Thayvian]

For whatever reason, BG has different power level for the creatures, meaning Level 15 Drizzt would've been badly humliated by some of the minor monsters here.

Likewise, original Never Winter 2 campaing had a very different power scale compared to Baldur's Gate 1. And then there's an issue where original BG uses different mechanics - they're DND 2, and not 3.5.

Now...

How do you Effectively RP this encountering GOD like characters everywhere?

There are two ways to go about it:
1. You don't know how powerful they are.
2. After encountering something ridiculously powerful few days ago, you are jaded and no longer care.

The people that RP these characters sometimes ACT like they are gods.

Ah. Here's the problem, though. You can kill those people at level 1. Through power of friends, money and assassins. T

Higher levels sometimes do whatever they like and as a lower level you have to accept their RP or in some cases die or deal with sever consequences to your RP/FUN/Time. Which than encourages lower levels to do the same thing when they become higher levels.

The way I see it, lower level need to be more clever about it. First, you can employ more powerful people. Second, sometimes low level characters can kill high level one because it got overconfident.

Also...

"I've slain dragons and gods"

"Uh-huh. And i'm a god of the realms and creators of everything. Get lost buddy, before I call guards on you"

What are you suppose to do when you encounter the Weight these characters through around?

Scenario #1: Someone approaches your char and claim that they're all powerful and almighty. Default assumption is that this person is an overconfident village idiot.
Scenario #2: They actually demonstrate their power, but are not hostile. That depends on your character and their motives. In my case "worshipping" the wannabe demigod will never be on the list, however.
Scenairo #3: They demonstrate their power, but are hostile. Weasel out of the encounter using whatever way, and sic more powerful people on them. Assassins or law. Guards in this game are strong enough to beat demigdos.

In gneeral, however, the right idea is to drop BG1/2 power scale and just accept that this is an alternative realm where people of such powerful are much more common.... but are not gods. Your average city guard might as well be fighter 20.

And somebody like Ragefast might as well be level 30. And gods are level 60.

So what does that make a level 1 to 3 . Weaker than infants? Or some kind of jellyfish people. If a guard or man at arms is suppose to be level 20. Yet he's suppose to be a regular joe with a pike or halbard.

I think that ignoring the issue makes it worse.

[flipside43]

I don't really think saying people forget people are dangerous and do not consider mortality is a fair estimate. I've encountered plenty who do. We're also operating in a HIGHLY magical environment where people do return from the dead, death isn't once and done here either for many.

To be honest, it just sounds like you've had a bad reaction to some antagonistic RP. Perhaps rolling a character concept that doesn't carry so much baggage may improve your experience?

[Thayvian]

I don't really think saying people forget people are dangerous and do not consider mortality is a fair estimate. I've encountered plenty who do. We're also operating in a HIGHLY magical environment where people do return from the dead, death isn't once and done here either for many.

To be honest, it just sounds like you've had a bad reaction to some antagonistic RP. Perhaps rolling a character concept that doesn't carry so much baggage may improve your experience?

This is not a one time thing I've seen not by a long shot. Hundreds of instances on this sever in same way or another and Hundreds more over the years since NWN 1. I Quit playing on servers because of breathtakingly bad RP of higher levels.

Again I stress this happens A LOT here and on other severs I've seen. Weather it's simply being over confident, or actively threatening you or even just trying to Help you because you appear to be new, with the talking down to you condescension. I'm pretty sure I've been guilty of this by accident as well.

So to conclude this not a singular event this is an On going problem across the Entirety of the NWN community that plays online.

And as stated above. Ignoring the problem does not make it go away it gets worse.

Kind of like the Shadow Stutter in Skyrim once you see it it's hard to be unseen.

I know it's an actual issue because I've seen DM on other severs talk about it.

And I know it happens here with both first hand experience and watching it happen to others.

I quit playing on SIGIL city of doors because of this very issue. Everyone is Sigil is a god. Yet a lot of players don't respect you and threaten you and then accept no RP but their own.

But threatening is not the only time that higher levels Lord their power over others.

I have seen it in BGTSC I've seen it in Raven Loft Prisoners of the Mist. On more than one occasion.

-Maecius
"It's especially important that we make new players feel welcome here. New players are a large part of what keeps us going when older players burn out, take breaks, or otherwise move on for a while (and sometimes never return). If we fail to continually renew ourselves as a server with new and returning players, we'll eventually dwindle away.

Unfortunately, I've received a handful of complaints from new or newer players about the treatment they've received while playing here. Namely in the forms of mocking or belittling, trolling, and excluding.

This doesn't appear to be a widespread or significant problem, but it's enough of a problem that I've received several complaints about it over the last few months, and we've lost at least three players over it. So please be mindful of how you treat your fellow players. Grizzled vets in particular should try to remember that not everyone who plays this game has years of experience here. Not everyone with a new account name is an old player reinventing themselves. For some of our players, everything on the server is brand new to them, sometimes even including the idea of roleplaying itself. Try to remember what life was like in their shoes, and try to ensure that we're living up to our reputation as a friendly, welcoming community. Because that reputation will only last for as long as it's true." -Maecius

[ZestyDragon]

A level 1 is a novice, an apprentice, someone starting off their journey. A level 30 is however trained, their journey is close to being concluded. There is a clear power difference, however one that is not obvious unless you make it so. Turn off the level option in scry and your less likely to be metagamed.

Fact is the longer you have played a PC the more events and involvement they have had on the server. meaning the more well known they are and power they have.

[Thayvian]

A level 1 is a novice, an apprentice, someone starting off their journey. A level 30 is however trained, their journey is close to being concluded. There is a clear power difference, however one that is not obvious unless you make it so. Turn off the level option in scry and your less likely to be metagamed.

Fact is the longer you have played a PC the more events and involvement they have had on the server. meaning the more well known they are and power they have.

Yet they fear a guard? This is where it gets really confusing. It's not so easy just say the Fact is.

A level 1 does not know they are level 1 a level 30 does not know they are level 30 this is called Meta gaming. And I've seen rules actively made against this in other severs. It helps a bit.

And you can't say that a level 30 is confident because he's level 30. I've seen meek level 30's and over confident level 1s.

[Sapper Woody]

A level 1 is a novice, an apprentice, someone starting off their journey. A level 30 is however trained, their journey is close to being concluded. There is a clear power difference, however one that is not obvious unless you make it so. Turn off the level option in scry and your less likely to be metagamed.

Fact is the longer you have played a PC the more events and involvement they have had on the server. meaning the more well known they are and power they have.

Yet they fear a guard? This is where it gets really confusing. It's not so easy just say the Fact is.

A level 1 does not know they are level 1 a level 30 does not know they are level 30 this is called Meta gaming. And I've seen rules actively made against this in other severs. It helps a bit.

And you can't say that a level 30 is confident because he's level 30. I've seen meek level 30's and over confident level 1s.

It's not that the level 30 fears a guard. My level 30 could take out 3-4 guards at a time, maybe more. It's that they fear the retribution of the law the guard represents. Fight in front of the guard outside the FAI? You could kill him easily. But then you suffer severe negative consequences. At the very least you get banned from the FAI, and now no longer have access to the shop/mudd's there. Or worse, you're now a known outlaw, and hunted by the fist, unable to enter Baldur's Gate.

I don't know of a single character who fears a guard. Like I said, they respect what the guard represents, and fear the consequences.

While I personally subscribe to the 1/2 level idea (meaning I play my level 30 like a level 15), power scaling due to mechanics also works (assuming that Elminster is level 60, for example). The effect is the same.

I do have to correct you, though. We are in 3.5 rules, and according to Forgotten Realms Wiki, in 3rd Ed, Elminster is level 35.

Fighter 1
Rogue 2
Cleric 3
Wizard 24
Archmage 5

[Laughingman]

My level 6 attacked a level 30 at the FAI fire once due to his low wisdom and ICly he is a drunken boxer which gives him good reason to fist fight everyone. Thankfully mscziwojski didn't kill him.