The Elephant in the Room overpowered PCs RP HELP

[Thayvian]

A level 1 is a novice, an apprentice, someone starting off their journey. A level 30 is however trained, their journey is close to being concluded. There is a clear power difference, however one that is not obvious unless you make it so. Turn off the level option in scry and your less likely to be metagamed.

Fact is the longer you have played a PC the more events and involvement they have had on the server. meaning the more well known they are and power they have.

Yet they fear a guard? This is where it gets really confusing. It's not so easy just say the Fact is.

A level 1 does not know they are level 1 a level 30 does not know they are level 30 this is called Meta gaming. And I've seen rules actively made against this in other severs. It helps a bit.

And you can't say that a level 30 is confident because he's level 30. I've seen meek level 30's and over confident level 1s.

It's not that the level 30 fears a guard. My level 30 could take out 3-4 guards at a time, maybe more. It's that they fear the retribution of the law the guard represents. Fight in front of the guard outside the FAI? You could kill him easily. But then you suffer severe negative consequences. At the very least you get banned from the FAI, and now no longer have access to the shop/mudd's there. Or worse, you're now a known outlaw, and hunted by the fist, unable to enter Baldur's Gate.

I don't know of a single character who fears a guard. Like I said, they respect what the guard represents, and fear the consequences.

While I personally subscribe to the 1/2 level idea (meaning I play my level 30 like a level 15), power scaling due to mechanics also works (assuming that Elminster is level 60, for example). The effect is the same.

I do have to correct you, though. We are in 3.5 rules, and according to Forgotten Realms Wiki, in 3rd Ed, Elminster is level 35.

Fighter 1
Rogue 2
Cleric 3
Wizard 24
Archmage 5

Yeah but everyone should not be Elminster however. It ruins the suspension of disbelief. The hundreds of times you see these level 30's doing anything.

If everyone's essentially a god why are they not bulding castles for themselves, in alternate realms and sky cities, and why hang out by the camp fire. When you have done everything. You would be a king.

I suggest a level 10 Cap. But again that's just my opinion.

[NeOmega]

I don't really think saying people forget people are dangerous and do not consider mortality is a fair estimate. I've encountered plenty who do. We're also operating in a HIGHLY magical environment where people do return from the dead, death isn't once and done here either for many.

To be honest, it just sounds like you've had a bad reaction to some antagonistic RP. Perhaps rolling a character concept that doesn't carry so much baggage may improve your experience?

This is not a one time thing I've seen not by a long shot. Hundreds of instances on this sever in same way or another and Hundreds more over the years since NWN 1. I Quit playing on servers because of breathtakingly bad RP of higher levels.

Again I stress this happens A LOT here and on other severs I've seen. Weather it's simply being over confident, or actively threatening you or even just trying to Help you because you appear to be new, with the talking down to you condescension. I'm pretty sure I've been guilty of this by accident as well.

So to conclude this not a singular event this is an On going problem across the Entirety of the NWN community that plays online.

And as stated above. Ignoring the problem does not make it go away it gets worse.

Kind of like the Shadow Stutter in Skyrim once you see it it's hard to be unseen.

ill be real, and i can say this because i am pretty much done playing here, after thinking about all the issues with all mmos, (this is still probably the best corner of the mmo world, ive looked into dozens of others, and they are all the same, even the same cliche cinematic openings, identical crafting systems, piss poor pvp mechanics, etc...)

i do not trust the intentions of anyone who insists they need to be high level to realize their character, nor do i care much for people in high levels. i read the build forums, and the discussion is always about how the build faires at epic levels. not much is noted about the journey, and flavor usually takes a second or third seat.

this pw has a thin veneer of civility, that covers your basic powerbuilds. its either that, or its tea parties and charity auctions, and no offense to those who rp that.. ..but that just is not my cup of tea.

...but anyways, hide yourself in scry. people (not chars), who dont know your level are far less inclined to act like bullies. with your name off, they might even assume you are a dm, which means they'll be on their best behavior. if you suck at rp, they'll find put pretty quick you aren't a dm, and then, weel, don suck at rp.

btw, making a bunch of emotes implying the way another character should act, or is acting, in your opinion, is poor form. you can grimace, frown, scowl, whatever, but emoting *glances at joe, knowing he is a fraud* is poor form.

[Diamore]

I simply haven't seen this be a problem. The number of characters I have encountered in my time here that do the "I'm a god" routine can be counted on one hand. The characters that casually talk about absurd epic bollocks is similarly numbered.

I simply don't interact with those characters if their RP ruins any kind of tension or suspension of disbelief in the ongoing RP I am engaged with. Considering I have been partying with almost exclusively new players to the server for the last two months, the difficulty you are describing has not been an issue.

Don't let someone else's power fantasy get in the way of your RP. Between simple disbelief, expectation of insanity or the tendency of people to exaggerate, it should be easy to RP around obtuse or unwieldy RP from high level characters. Once you do this you can just gather like minded players, perhaps low level but equally players who RP a more grounded story, before building your own world with them.

The idea that an adventurer who fights demons is still worried about getting kicked out of their favourite drinking spot by a guard shouldn't be a difficult concept to deal with. Nor should the idea that adventurers around a campfire are telling tall tales of their exploits to impress the new recruits (because that pretty much exactly whats happening anyways).

Finally, don't rely on prior lore of Forgotten Realms and Baldur's Gate fiction to guide your expectations. React to what you encounter the way your character, not you, would react to it.

[NegInfinity]

So what does that make a level 1 to 3.

Normal person who never pursued combat training.

I think that ignoring the issue makes it worse.

That's not ignoring, that's offering you an explanation.

Normal people probably are a commoner class, and a high ranking noble can be easily level 20 as well - in the "noble" class.

This is not an original BG. This is a bgtscc interpretation of it. In this world a normal person can reach level 30. Even monsters can reach level 30.

Gods are beyond that. If some people believe themselves to be gods, well, you can make fun of them.

[Thayvian]

I simply haven't seen this be a problem. The number of characters I have encountered in my time here that do the "I'm a god" routine can be counted on one hand. The characters that casually talk about absurd epic bollocks is similarly numbered.

I simply don't interact with those characters if their RP ruins any kind of tension or suspension of disbelief in the ongoing RP I am engaged with. Considering I have been partying with almost exclusively new players to the server for the last two months, the difficulty you are describing has not been an issue.

Don't let someone else's power fantasy get in the way of your RP. Between simple disbelief, expectation of insanity or the tendency of people to exaggerate, it should be easy to RP around obtuse or unwieldy RP from high level characters. Once you do this you can just gather like minded players, perhaps low level but equally players who RP a more grounded story, before building your own world with them.

The idea that an adventurer who fights demons is still worried about getting kicked out of their favourite drinking spot by a guard shouldn't be a difficult concept to deal with. Nor should the idea that adventurers around a campfire are telling tall tales of their exploits to impress the new recruits (because that pretty much exactly whats happening anyways).

Finally, don't rely on prior lore of Forgotten Realms and Baldur's Gate fiction to guide your expectations. React to what you encounter the way your character, not you, would react to it.

Okay??? Than why are the Dm's on so many severs aware of the issue. And I've seen it more than a handful of times. On many severs. Sometimes it's subtle.

"Finally, don't rely on prior lore of Forgotten Realms and Baldur's Gate fiction to guide your expectations. React to what you encounter the way your character, not you, would react to it." This is How you lose players right here. You see people Sign Up for a PW roleplay and EXPECT the BG to be solid and Persistent. Some guy even in this thread said he's pretty much Done playing.

I will again quote this here so it sinks in a bit. I myself am Highly disappointed in not being able to play something Closer to the orginal BG game.

"It's especially important that we make new players feel welcome here. New players are a large part of what keeps us going when older players burn out, take breaks, or otherwise move on for a while (and sometimes never return). If we fail to continually renew ourselves as a server with new and returning players, we'll eventually dwindle away." Maecius

[Thayvian]

So what does that make a level 1 to 3.

Normal person who never pursued combat training.

I think that ignoring the issue makes it worse.

That's not ignoring, that's offering you an explanation.

Normal people probably are a commoner class, and a high ranking noble can be easily level 20 as well - in the "noble" class.

This is not an original BG. This is a bgtscc interpretation of it. In this world a normal person can reach level 30. Even monsters can reach level 30.

Gods are beyond that. If some people believe themselves to be gods, well, you can make fun of them.

Not when they take advantage of everything around them and meta game. Thus the issue.

[NegInfinity]

Not when they take advantage of everything around them and meta game. Thus the issue.

That's completely unrelated to your original question.

Report metagaming to dm. Metagaming is not connected to player's level.

[Steve]

Just ignore everything you witness that you don't enjoy in your RP. Walk away. You CAN do that.

The only change you can make is RPing like you want to, and find others who like your style, and ask them to join you. Maybe it'll last for years, maybe it will last for 1 adventure. But at least, then, you would have managed to experience the game YOU enjoy...and you can leave those Others you are adverse to, to themselves.

[ZestyDragon]

A level 10 cap will never happen. Its an old server with an active population, who for the most part like the way it is.

As it was said earlier no one is an Elminster, the DMs have always treated PC's at about a mid power level e.g half your level, or the other counter part of npc's being twice the level they have in DnD. Further if you think being level 30 makes you the top, you are very wrong. There is a big difference between a new level 30 and a six year old level 30. so the progression of a character exists outside of the levelling system already. Your complaint is that high levels throw their weight around, well of course they do. People know them their opinion is trusted, their skills in combat have been witnessed. Why would people listen to the new guy fresh of the boat, over the person they have fought beside and spent time with over the years. Why would they be scared of someone who has no fame or infamy? Baring the personality traits.

Fact is adventures are a very very small portion of the population. So if you have not meet the person before, its more likely they are just an average joe then an adventurer. Then take into account the mentality that goes with adventuring e.g running through deadly dungeons in search of massive amounts of wealth or w/e. Then its more then plausible that average joe just ain't that intimidating, after all you did just head down to rob a floating eye ball that shoots magical laser beams.

[Thayvian]

A level 10 cap will never happen. Its an old server with an active population, who for the most part like the way it is.

As it was said earlier no one is an Elminster, the DMs have always treated PC's at about a mid power level e.g half your level, or the other counter part of npc's being twice the level they have in DnD. Further if you think being level 30 makes you the top, you are very wrong. There is a big difference between a new level 30 and a six year old level 30. so the progression of a character exists outside of the levelling system already. Your complaint is that high levels throw their weight around, well of course they do. People know them their opinion is trusted, their skills in combat have been witnessed. Why would people listen to the new guy fresh of the boat, over the person they have fought beside and spent time with over the years. Why would they be scared of someone who has no fame or infamy? Baring the personality traits.

Fact is adventures are a very very small portion of the population. So if you have not meet the person before, its more likely they are just an average joe then an adventurer. Then take into account the mentality that goes with adventuring e.g running through deadly dungeons in search of massive amounts of wealth or w/e. Then its more then plausible that average joe just ain't that intimidating, after all you did just head down to rob a floating eye ball that shoots magical laser beams.

You're losing players however and they will eventually stop getting new ones. As a new player. I see that I doubt that I will ignore these issue forever. And Log off. I'm tempted at this point to make my own BG recreation PW sever. Just to get back some of that D&D feel of old.

[Diamore]

Okay??? Than why are the Dm's on so many severs aware of the issue. And I've seen it more than a handful of times. On many severs. Sometimes it's subtle.

This is How you lose players right here. You see people Sign Up for a PW roleplay and EXPECT the BG to be solid and Persistent.

Firstly, this thread was a request for help with your RP in dealing with the issues described. I have answered it as such.

Secondly, you have misconstrued by statement about expectations and I do not know how. The server and the ongoing RP here is solid and persistent.

[Thayvian]

Not when they take advantage of everything around them and meta game. Thus the issue.

That's completely unrelated to your original question.

Report metagaming to dm. Metagaming is not connected to player's level.

Yes it very much is. And I have seen other Severs make a ruling on this. Players Do not know your level. This is meta game knowledge. No offense to anyone but that is by vary defintion meta gaming. I don't see why it's not enforced here. It's Knowledge that your PC would not know. They may have an estimate. But they Could not and would not know. Someone Actively acting on this knowledge is meta gaming. And I have seen it way more than just a handful of times.

It can be very subtle, to very extreme.

[NegInfinity]

One more thing.

The server has play your sheet rule.

To be a deity you need a divine rank on your sheet.

Somebody who has no divine rank is either suffering from delusions of grandeur, or is a lunatic, or a chalratan. But not a god.

It is this simple.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divine ... Powers.htm

[NegInfinity]

Not when they take advantage of everything around them and meta game. Thus the issue.

That's completely unrelated to your original question.

Report metagaming to dm. Metagaming is not connected to player's level.

Yes it very much is. And

It is very easy to guess somebody's level by abilities they use.

Oh, don't like the term "level"? Well, in-character it can be "power". "This one can use hellball", "this one can stab 12 times faster than a beginner would", "this one can hide better". It is very simple.

It is not realted to your question.

[ZestyDragon]

A level 10 cap will never happen. Its an old server with an active population, who for the most part like the way it is.

As it was said earlier no one is an Elminster, the DMs have always treated PC's at about a mid power level e.g half your level, or the other counter part of npc's being twice the level they have in DnD. Further if you think being level 30 makes you the top, you are very wrong. There is a big difference between a new level 30 and a six year old level 30. so the progression of a character exists outside of the levelling system already. Your complaint is that high levels throw their weight around, well of course they do. People know them their opinion is trusted, their skills in combat have been witnessed. Why would people listen to the new guy fresh of the boat, over the person they have fought beside and spent time with over the years. Why would they be scared of someone who has no fame or infamy? Baring the personality traits.

Fact is adventures are a very very small portion of the population. So if you have not meet the person before, its more likely they are just an average joe then an adventurer. Then take into account the mentality that goes with adventuring e.g running through deadly dungeons in search of massive amounts of wealth or w/e. Then its more then plausible that average joe just ain't that intimidating, after all you did just head down to rob a floating eye ball that shoots magical laser beams.

You're losing players however and they will eventually stop getting new ones. As a new player. I see that I doubt that I will ignore these issue forever. And Log off. I'm tempted at this point to make my own BG recreation PW sever. Just to get back some of that D&D feel of old.

No matter what you do there will always be some upset players. You cannot please everyone. The server is always losing and gaining new players, along with breaks and various other things. Its been around since 2001ish and has only grown, while it will likely one day die off it ain't going to be due to the current level or lore system. Fact is the only way it dies of in a hurry is if it turns on its many long time players, kinda exactly like what would happen if the server was wiped and capped at level 10.