new way to PvP proposal (better pvp fan club idea)

[NeOmega]

ill just get to it, and not explain the clunkiness of the PvP fan club.

At the top of your character bio, if you are open to PvP without an out:

put PVP in red, if you are a bandit/marauder, crazy, hostile. this means you are likely to attack without notice. you can attack anybody with a colored pvp tag.
under the pvp tag, put a clarification, in red, ie: bandit, maalarite, murderer, thug, elf-bane, orc-slayer, orc marauder, tiefling hunter, etc etc, and stay within the rp of your definition. ie no orcslayers killing humans, unless clrification is bandit/orc-slayer.

another i would personally use often is "dungeon hostile", meaning some of my chars, when in dungeons, have no way to determine friend from foe, and consider all hostile.

a "hostile" tag would mean always hostile. if you have this tag, this means you are never seen in cities, or with merchants. you live in dungeons and the wild, and kill everything. this would likely be a teifling, orc, maalarite, fist of forest extremist, banished orc, or perhaps genasi, unaccostomed to civilization, or perhaps a wanted outlaw, who does not want anybody to find them.

of course, if you are a wanted outlaw, you are not waiting on the road for caravans. you are living in the wild, trying not to get found.

it is obvious, good alignment can not have this tag.

put PVP in yellow if you are open/willing to be a target of said attacks. this also means you are open to assassination without warning. Yellow can not assume reds are hostile, as that is ooc info. yellows can not initiate pvp, unless traditional pvp rules are followed. this include not being able to meta-info the red PVP in someones bio. a yellow tag requires no clarification.

put PVP in blue, if you are a character that knows wanted men. (your character is a law and order/protector type, bounty hunter type) also in blue, put your job, (bounty hunter, lawman, guardian, guardian of a god, etc). keep in mind you may not give titles to yourself, and play your sheet. (you can not call yourself a flaming fist metcenary). people with PVP red are open game to those with blue, inlcuding banditry, assassination, or serial bloodlust. blues can not attack yellows, or other blues, unless regular pvp rules are followed. PvP reds consent to being attacked without warning by blues in the wild. if your character is a bounty hunter, there has to be a bounty to attack a red without provocation.

depending on character, any alignment may have the blue tag. (for example, a bounty hunter might be evil)

if you do not want to play by these rules, or want an rp out, do not put PvP at the heading of your character bio. if someone does not have PVP at the head of their bio in any color, all normal pvp rules apply, (rp out, fleeing transition is end of battle, etc, etc)

an assassination needs an rp reason. it can be blood fued, (mentioned below), or other. it can not be "i dont like that guy, he is snooty". that's not realistic.

if you want to play by these rules, but only in a guild/faction fued, you can determine your own marking to state such. this would assume you had the marking up when "wearing your guild/faction colors". it would mean you are open to attack from anyone in an opposing guild or faction, whether they have their colors up or not. From there, blood fued rules may apply. (see below)


If someone is at the fai with pvp in red, that doesnt mean you can kill them on sight around guards. if you are a blue, you can stalk/follow them, then try to apprehend/kill them.

if you are red yourself, you have to have a IC reason to follow them away from the fai. if you are a marauder/bloodthirsty, there is no reason to follow them in particular. if you are a bandit, you would need to see they are wealthy.

if you are yellow, you do not particularly know the intentions of those in red until they talk/charge/demand you give them everything or die, etc...

if you are blue, you can only attack reds on sight. it does not give you license to attack yellows or other blues, without rp and outs.

and this may be more controversial, but:

fleeing the map does not mean loss, (in this voluntary system). It means you escaped. if the attacker pursues, that is his decision whether they want to pursue into transition, and risk the meta combat garbage. i would personally wait/buff, or go elsewhere. It also means the fight is still on... ...if the fleeer is recgnizable as an attacker. (the flee-er may change clothes, drop mask, change form or disguese.) It also means if someone flees, and wants to recruit others, (even those not part of the system) to get you, they can.

it also means, if the one you fled from ever sees you in the form you attacked them with, they can attack you, without rp out. it also means they themselves may mask up/ disguise/shape shift, and do so. this could happen months later. the battle is not resolved until one or the other is defeated.

and even more controversial:

after the battle is fully resolved, a blood fued is on. if any are defeated, they can at any time, (after 24 hours) forever, hire assassins, hunt them, what have you, to get the victor back. (no rp out) the victor does not have this option. if the original victor is defeated this way, everything is set to 0, and any future conflict between the two has to be without mentioning previous encounters, unless agreed to let it be a blood fued, in which case the two are open pvp enemies forever, (except 24 hour cool,down time, for healiing) all tactics are on the table, and no warnings necessary. (like poisoning potions, setting traps, hired assassins, etc). the player just has to be made aware after the fact, be it ic or ooc, who did it. if it is ooc, it is meta information to know IC. However, a tell might be nice, just to let the player why it happened, and it is ic, and not just griefing.

INITIATORS OF PVP IN THIS SYSTEM ARE NOT ENTITLED TO BLOOD FEUD. If you initiate the conflict, and are killed/defeated, it is over. try again in 24 hours if you wish, but according to the server pvp amnesia rule. (you remember nothing).

Assassinations:

if an assassin is defeated, (doing the work of another), they can either give up the name of who hired them, or choose death. Either way, a failed assassination (on behalf of another character), does not allow a blood fued. a failed assassination ends the fued, between the assassin and the target.

however, if someone hires another for assassination, and the asssassination fails, they have opened themselves up to assassination, if the assassin can be covinced to give up the information.

there would be no rp out for the assassins employer, nor is anybody particularly entitled to let them know if their name was given or not. Furthermore, depending on the target, the assassins employer is open to no out PvP from either the target, or anybody the target chooses to help with revenge. IF YOU HIRE AN ASSASSIN, NO MATTER WHAT COLOR YOUR PVP STAUS IS, OR EVEN IF YOU HAVE NONE, YOU HAVE OPENED YOURSELF UP TO UN-ANNOUNCED PVP IF YOUR ASSASSIN FAILS FROM THE TARGET, OR ANYBODY WORKING ON BEHALF OF THE TARGET. possibly even the assassin themself.

finally, an assassin without an employer, falls under the red pvp and blood fued rules.

final rule: you butthurt cuz you lost, or any other reason, bro?
then take your pvp tag off.
absolutely no complaints are to be made to dms about the pvp club.
you dont talk about pvp club.

TL:DR
if you put the pvp tag (red, yellow, or blue), in your header, you are open to attack from reds, no matter your pvp tag color. You are open to backstabs, quick casts, whatever. no permission is needed to attack you.
You may only attack others with PVP tags! putting a pvp tag in your bio does not allow you to do anything to those without pvp tags, without following normal pvp rules.
INITIATING PVP MEANS YOU ARE WILLING TO FIGHT ANYBODY IN LEAGUE WITH YOUR TARGET. EVEN IF THEIR ALLIES DO NOT HAVE PVP TAGS. if your are a group, all of you must have pvp tags to initiate combat.

if you have a red pvp tag, you can attack anyone with a pvp tag, without provocation or saying a word if you so desire. it still must be in accord with your character. if your tag is bandit, or murderer, or blood fever malarite, you do not need much reason. However if your tag is orc-slayer, you can only attack orcs without warning. any body else with a pvp tag, you would need a reason.
It would be honest, fair play, if after a few muggings/ murders, you change your status to "wanted murderer" or "wanted bandit", to also open yourself to attack from blue tags.

if you have a yellow PvP tag, you may not initiate PvP with any color! A yellow tag simply means, "come at me, bro".

if you have a blue pvp tag, you may only attack certain reds without warning. for example, if you are a bounty hunter, guardian, lawman, you could only attack bandits. It would not allow you to attack orc-slayers or elf-banes, and you certainly could not attack other blues or yellows

[NeOmega]

to further expound on the rules:

pvp red consents to blue taking them in for justice, if defeated, but nothing else.

no tags consent to anything like getting your body burned, turned to ash, and scattered to the winds, or anything silly like that. if you want to do more than take a red to jail, it has to be via consent in regular rules.


the blood fued means that if you defeat someone, EVEN IF YOU LATER REMOVE YOUR PVP TAG, they still have the right to try to kill you for mortally wounding them, via any way they wish. (poisoning, assassination, or hunting you down).

this means if a level 30 beats a level 2, that level 2 just might live for revenge, and a year later, as the level 30 is now a reformed member of society, swilling wine with nobles, they still might find their past come back to haunt them.

if a player ooc announces they are dead after defeat, there is no blood fued. regular pvp rules apply afterward. (essentially, the fight did not happen after 24 hours)

if the winning character wants to, they may pay the defeated coin to no longer stalk them. If it is more than 1000 gold, the defeated must end the blood fued. anything less is considered a "rp" payment, and the blood fued is still on, even though the character may say all is well now.


in regards to death, if the two meet again, some suggestions would be, "(defeated char), i thought i killed you..." or "(defeated char), you are out of prison already?..."

somebody without PvP tags does not get to initiate pvp against somebody with the tags, without following all the regular rules. furthermore, there is no blood fued option afterward, if pvp does happen, unless agreed too.


and



if somebody desnt want to rp with you, regardless of yours or their tag colors, they dont have to.

Id rather they did respect the tag, but there may be other reasons. if you try to abuse/outwit, whatever this systems rules are, you arent playing honestly, YOU CANNOT USE THESE TAGS TO FORCE ANYBODY INTO ANYTHING

A PVP TAG DOES NOT MAKE YOU IMMUNE TO KOS RULES. ie "Hey, you cant attack me, i am a necromancer bounty hunter, with a blue pvp tag, and you have a yellow pvp tag! " KOS rules override the pvp tag rules.

it must be remembered this is a voluntary system. if someone starts an oc conversation/attacks whatever, amd you do not want to engage them, for whatever reason, send a tell letting them no you are not interested in this. If you say something IC or fight back, that is consent.

I only add this because I know many people do not, and will never understand what this server is about. putting a PvP tag in your bio does not give you license to be a jerk, it does not allow you to do something cheap, ( say run away while somebody is bleeding out, so the goblins can kill them and they lose their XP, change your red pvp tag from orc slayer to elf bane just to kill an elf, etc), it is not a way to skirt the rules to engage in ooc enmity. it is not a way to avoid playing your sheet.

putting PvP n your bio means you want to have fun, and that means you are willing to lose.

and if somebody beats you up, remember they have agreed to blood fued. you can get them back later. serve it up cold.


this looks like a long legal disclaimer, and it sort of is, because i know how people are.

[NegInfinity]

No.

This is lifted straight from MMO games. The "red means they're free to kill" was present in Lineage and many other. BGTSCC is not a MMO.

The only thing it will achieve is undermine quality of RP and destroy believably of the world.

While it would be nice to give players ability to control monsters and bandits, when applied to player characters this will simply reduce roleplaying aspect to nothing. The slain bandit, by the way, will be able to instantly jump back into the fray. This stuff tend to happen during tournaments, and it is always cringeworthy.

So it just promotes mindless consequence-less murderfest, and not making more interesting stories.

[RaiderOne]

No.

This is lifted straight from MMO games. The "red means they're free to kill" was present in Lineage and many other. BGTSCC is not a MMO.

The only thing it will achieve is undermine quality of RP and destroy believably of the world.

While it would be nice to give players ability to control monsters and bandits, when applied to player characters this will simply reduce roleplaying aspect to nothing. The slain bandit, by the way, will be able to instantly jump back into the fray. This stuff tend to happen during tournaments, and it is always cringeworthy.

So it just promotes mindless consequence-less murderfest, and not making more interesting stories.

+1

If you want to play a bandit that's fine, I fully support your decision to do so. I do not want to play click every toons bio the moment i see them to see if they will murder me or not.

[NeOmega]

No.

This is lifted straight from MMO games. The "red means they're free to kill" was present in Lineage and many other. BGTSCC is not a MMO.

The only thing it will achieve is undermine quality of RP and destroy believably of the world.

While it would be nice to give players ability to control monsters and bandits, when applied to player characters this will simply reduce roleplaying aspect to nothing. The slain bandit, by the way, will be able to instantly jump back into the fray. This stuff tend to happen during tournaments, and it is always cringeworthy.

So it just promotes mindless consequence-less murderfest, and not making more interesting stories.

+1

If you want to play a bandit that's fine, I fully support your decision to do so. I do not want to play click every toons bio the moment i see them to see if they will murder me or not.

then dont put pvp at the top of your bio, and you wont have to.

[Slunko]

I support this, but I doubt I will stick around long enough with a pvp toon to see this implemented in any way

[Thayvian]

I second this idea as long as people can completely opt out entirely or be a green tag such as.

PVP Merchant, trader, Peaceful Non threat regardless of their alignment.

[Thayvian]

No.

This is lifted straight from MMO games. The "red means they're free to kill" was present in Lineage and many other. BGTSCC is not a MMO.

The only thing it will achieve is undermine quality of RP and destroy believably of the world.

While it would be nice to give players ability to control monsters and bandits, when applied to player characters this will simply reduce roleplaying aspect to nothing. The slain bandit, by the way, will be able to instantly jump back into the fray. This stuff tend to happen during tournaments, and it is always cringeworthy.

So it just promotes mindless consequence-less murderfest, and not making more interesting stories.

+1

If you want to play a bandit that's fine, I fully support your decision to do so. I do not want to play click every toons bio the moment i see them to see if they will murder me or not.

I'm sure that the Tell system would still be in place. Surely it would not be that un- intuitive.

[Thayvian]

No.

This is lifted straight from MMO games. The "red means they're free to kill" was present in Lineage and many other. BGTSCC is not a MMO.

The only thing it will achieve is undermine quality of RP and destroy believably of the world.

While it would be nice to give players ability to control monsters and bandits, when applied to player characters this will simply reduce roleplaying aspect to nothing. The slain bandit, by the way, will be able to instantly jump back into the fray. This stuff tend to happen during tournaments, and it is always cringeworthy.

So it just promotes mindless consequence-less murderfest, and not making more interesting stories.

Yeah but you could still use the Tell system on top of this. it just identifies who wants PVP and who does not want PVP and accessible RP for that situation. It still should require PVP consent.

you could also try to improve the idea that way everyone wins

[Wandering_Woodsman]

People already ignore the bio of everyone else. Putting in this won't help.

Uless someone puts a note out saying "READ MY BIO" for some reason (ie, merchants) then nobody looks at them. I've had stuff in my bio for months, if not years that, in all that time, anyone could comment on. Nobody has.

[Thayvian]

People already ignore the bio of everyone else. Putting in this won't help.

Uless someone puts a note out saying "READ MY BIO" for some reason (ie, merchants) then nobody looks at them. I've had stuff in my bio for months, if not years that, in all that time, anyone could comment on. Nobody has.

If it was made a server Rule it would not be over looked it could easily go like this.

1. Tell. PVP consent request.

2. Look at bio.

3. Confirm tag and type of RP required.

4 .Required ROLEPLAY as per tag.

5. PVP consent confirmed

6. Fight

Problem solved. << no more headaches for the DMs. Or anyone else for that matter.

[NeOmega]

People already ignore the bio of everyone else. Putting in this won't help.

Uless someone puts a note out saying "READ MY BIO" for some reason (ie, merchants) then nobody looks at them. I've had stuff in my bio for months, if not years that, in all that time, anyone could comment on. Nobody has.

I dont ignore the bios, just most of the time, I am playing the 20 minutes I do before work, or am playing one of my genasi/sneaker loners, who really dont do much talking.

And help what?

If there is no PVP in the header, then you'll still get ignored.

If there is a form of PvP in the header, you shoudl always be on the lookout. You never know when someone will knife you in the kidney.

[NeOmega]

I second this idea as long as people can completely opt out entirely or be a green tag such as.

PVP Merchant, trader, Peaceful Non threat regardless of their alignment.

that's the same as no tag.

Ill turn on my yellow tag when I have time for my merchants to be accosted. When not, ill turn it off.

Yellow still means "non-threat", but it also means, "mug me, if you dare"

[Thayvian]

I second this idea as long as people can completely opt out entirely or be a green tag such as.

PVP Merchant, trader, Peaceful Non threat regardless of their alignment.

that's the same as no tag.

Ill turn on my yellow tag when I have time for my merchants to be accosted. When not, ill turn it off.

Yellow still means "non-threat", but it also means, "mug me, if you dare"

not having the tag could confuse people. I also like the idea of a yellow tag that you posted. That sounds good to..

[RaiderOne]

As previously stated I would not like to have to look at every characters bio to see if they were going to start something. Its not even reasonable to have read it once as players can change their position on the matter. If your going to do such a thing you need to put it in your characters name using the disguise system, bad example but such as "John Doe (Hostile Bandit)" or "john Doe (PvP)" etc.

I'm happy to get involved in PvP as I pretty much play antagonistic characters. But I do feel that the way in which the game works and the systems in place do not support PvP on equal footing.

For instance; If one of my party is flagged as open to the club and another player comes along and starts something then the whole group becomes involved. In no way do I see that those other characters should stand around and watch IC or OOC. So the aggressor needs to approach the group as a whole and not try and single someone out.

Another issue I have run into is that high level characters do go to areas that are way lower CR just to get easy treasure. A couple of weeks ago my at the time level 10 character is in a CR8 area, which running solo is about right for my toon. Another player shows up who I know is about level 17 (and a grandrather/twinker so hes really well armed) from interacting with him before. That character was semi hostile towards me but as I was hidden he couldn't start anything. The only way I can think of to stop such a thing would be to make the treasure scale like the CR of the mobs do. So if you was in an area to low for you then you don't get good drops.

My next issue is that the player scry provides information but allows you to hide it. Every single drow player I have run into hides their information, just so happens that every actively seeking PvP player does as well. Which provides the player that hide information with a massive OOC advantage which I imagine is very hard to act against. Since being on the receiving end of such hidden information I now hide my level with every character I play. Since doing so my main toon has not been challenged for her actions like she was before. Don't get me wrong, I want to be challenged for my actions, but I'm not happy about someone doing so just because they can preview my character level. The OOC advantage can stay at home thanks.

So if you want to revise some of the PvP rules please consider things such as this.