Coming Soon: Discussion Thread (2017)

[Sun Wukong]

And well, a long time ago I did have a Spirit Shaman/Hospitaler, caster level 30 and BAB of 25. Thus the following bit does raise a question:

Weapon enchantments carry over to creatures who use weapons.

Does this mean that Flame Weapon, Storm Avatar, and possibly Storm Lord/Silverstar abilities pass over to the new form if it has a weapon, if there is a correct weapon type in case for the PRC abilitiess? Spear for Stormlords, for example.

And again, re-applying some of these spells will eat away your 'shapechange/polymorph slots.'

[Steve]

Something I forgot to mention: all the new Shapes made to use are AWESOME! Very cool, Nachti, and thank you for your time!

Cause especially:

Hook Horror

Yeah boyee!!!

[Sun Wukong]

But where is the Night Walker from shapechange?

[Hawke]

This is exciting for sure.

But same with Druid and Wildshape, it is moreso an issue with mages in that spell slot bonuses are a major annoyance.

To be clear. If I have a Ring that gives me a level 4 spell, a pair of boots that gives me a level 2 and 3 spell, hat that gives me a level 2,3 spells, necklace that gives level 4 spell, sword that gives a level 4 spell.... I shapechange, polymorph or anything, now I lose 6 spells that I have to go back and click, click, click, what went there again? Click.

Just isn't worth it. I would love to have my wizard be a bad ass shapeshifter, but with this "feature" of losing bonus spell slots from items, it just is a pain. I know it was mentioned on IRC about there being an incoming fix in the future, but that was a while ago, no idea if something like that is possible.

Love the changes though, love where your heads are at.

[roke42]

Will the spider domain spell "spider shape" be affected by this in any way?

[Tsidkenu]

I shapechange, polymorph or anything, now I lose 6 spells that I have to go back and click, click, click, what went there again? Click.

Just isn't worth it.

Knowledge is power.

Hidden: show

You can also use the /mspells # command to save a particular spell book selection. Simply fill your spell book with the spells you want (eg. Fire spells for the Cloud Peaks; Frost spells for the Greypeaks, anti-undead for the Crypts) and type /mspells #, where # is the hotbar slot you wish to save it to (1-144). Every time you click that slot, your spells will be reverted to the saved setup, after which you should rest before heading out.

[Sun Wukong]

Just isn't worth it. I would love to have my wizard be a bad (hiney) shapeshifter, but with this "feature" of losing bonus spell slots from items, it just is a pain. I know it was mentioned on IRC about there being an incoming fix in the future, but that was a while ago, no idea if something like that is possible.

A partial fix would be to set the Wisdom/Charisma/Intelligence to 50 for the duration of the Shapechange. It would simply let you have one or two new spell slots per spell level, which should act as a buffer against the spell slot loss. After all, with my Spirit Shaman I used to cast Owl's Insight before Shapechange not to lose any spells. But the problem with this is that people can stack up on spell slot items of a particular level and primary casting ability score of 50 does not grant enough extra slots to cover for the loss. Not to mention that with abilities such as charisma to saves, and intelligence to damage, it can be way overpowered.

Then if it is possible, another potential fix could be to have the forms grant extra spell slots for each level for the duration of the spell. But those slots would have to be added prior to changing form, and removed after returning to correct form. With server lag or hickups, it is possible that these extra slots would linger after the spell, which is another problem of its own.

So yeah... :/


Oh, and as a current player of a shapeshifter: I just do not use any spell slot items, or even items that boost my primary spellcasting ability. Hence, I actually have less spell slots available than what I could otherwise have. Now, it could be possible for me to have two sets of equipment, one with the extra slots for resting and another to be worn once I have cast the spells from the extra slots. But it is still too much of extra hassle for me though...

[Nachti]

Spidershape is on my to-do-list.

Spellslot loss and baleful polymoph/mass fowl will be fixed aswell.

[Nemni]

Spidershape is on my to-do-list.

Perhaps take a look at the warlock shapechange https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title ... f_Changing too!

[Steve]

Natural AC from Palemaster, Frostmage and Dragon Disciple is disabled during polymorph and shapechange.
Weapon enchantments carry over to creatures who use weapons.

More questions to add to the unanswered still lingering.

1. Will it be only Natural AC that doesn't transfer? What about AC from Dwarven Defender, or other forms of Class-based AC?
2. By Enchantments, is that then on AB and/or EB? Or will it be any Property on the weapon, like Extra Dmg types, On Hit properties, etc.?

Thanks.

[Nachti]

1. Natural Spell feat~
Will this be applicable for Druids casting Shapechange? If not, is the argument against it because Shapechange is a spell from the Weave and thus NOT natural? Are the Druids spells, in general, not a natural?

No change to natural spell feat planned. Its something that should be discussed at a later point, maybe after release of the Shifter class.

2. Unarmed Feat line~
Will Focus/Specialization/Master Unarmed be applicable to shapes from Shapechange, as they are applicable to shapes from Wild Shape?

I consider it.

Is it possible to use creature's special ability while polymorphed? ie: Mind Flayer - Mind Blast

Cant give an answer to this yet.

Will this functionality be added to the Disguise/Disguise Other line of spells as well? Would prove an amazing boon to Disguise RP if so!

What functionalities?

Does this mean that Flame Weapon, Storm Avatar, and possibly Storm Lord/Silverstar abilities pass over to the new form if it has a weapon, if there is a correct weapon type in case for the PRC abilitiess? Spear for Stormlords, for example.

That something for QC to test. If it happens and is buggy I can propably disable temporary buffs.

1. Will it be only Natural AC that doesn't transfer? What about AC from Dwarven Defender, or other forms of Class-based AC?

Dwarfen defenders get Dodge AC which results of a intensive defensive training. The dwarf keeps that knowledge/training even in another form. Same for bladesinger, duelist or any other class where this philosophy applies.

By Enchantments, is that then on AB and/or EB? Or will it be any Property on the weapon, like Extra Dmg types, On Hit properties, etc.?

Any.

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Though I released this information too early, so changes might happen.

[Steve]

Though I released this information too early, so changes might happen.

As expected! But thanks for the answering so far!

[MrPsion]

Today at the Gnoll caves I saw an unusual emote "you hear fighting up ahead." I went to the boss chamber and had about two rounds with that gnoll before multiple hill giants with gold names stormed in. It was total chaos and I had to teleport to safety 11/10

[Sun Wukong]

1. Will it be only Natural AC that doesn't transfer? What about AC from Dwarven Defender, or other forms of Class-based AC?

Dwarfen defenders get Dodge AC which results of a intensive defensive training. The dwarf keeps that knowledge/training even in another form. Same for bladesinger, duelist or any other class where this philosophy applies.

Monk AC:

A monk has a sixth sense that lets his avoid even unanticipated attacks. When unarmored, the monk adds his Wisdom bonus (if any) to his AC. In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five monk levels thereafter (+2 at 10th, +3 at 15th, and +4 at 20th level). He loses these bonuses when he is immobilized or helpless, when he wears any armor, or when he carries a shield.

If that philosophy is behind the removal of Monk AC, which is literally a sixth sense born out of intensive defensive training, then I do not think those other sources of class AC should apply in the new form. I mean, I could pick a Bladesinger and have:
+6 (Improved Mage Armor),
+4 (Shield Spell),
+5 (Shadow Shield),
+2 (Cat's Grace),
+1 (Reduce Person)
+1 (Haste)
+5 (Bladesinger dodge AC),
= +24 AC on top of whatever the shape itself gets.

Now, currently, a Monk/Spirit Shaman gets:
+12 (Tortoise Shell),
+4 (Halo of Sand),
+2 (Cat's Grace),
+15~ (Monk AC with Owl's Insight),
= +33 on top of whatever else the shape gets.

The default Horned Devil has the base AC of 35, and our Bladesinger would be looking at an AC of 59+, because they could turn on Improved Combat Expertise for that +6 AC and land at AC of 65, all while having access to spells that grant 50% Concealment, Mirror Images, and what not else.

Now, if our current Monk/Spirit Shaman has spent the feats to get ICE as well, then they could easily reach the AC of 74+. It is higher than what our Bladesinger gets, but at least it doesn't have Concealment and Mirror Images on top of it, and high spell DCs when our shapeshifter returns to their original form.


I am just saying that it might make more sense 'balance' wise to make all shapes block class based AC bonuses. The excuse or design philosophy could be simply that they have not had the time to master those abilities in their temporary form.



Anyhow, just my 2 cents or what not.

[Lyna]

Now, currently, a Monk/Spirit Shaman gets:
+12 (Tortoise Shell),
+4 (Halo of Sand),
+2 (Cat's Grace),
+15~ (Monk AC with Owl's Insight),
= +33 on top of whatever else the shape gets.

You will also get +4 from Armor/shield. if you wear armor then shift the bonus is still applied and it does not deactivate monk bonus. Also 15 monk AC can go up another 2 as greater wisdom feats are available. In addition monk will give you tumble which allows for another 3 AC and lastly monk gives flurry of blows which works in any form without a weapon.

Although i agree with your point. Both lots of AC are way to high and Blade Singer fighting style requires finesse and skill. You would be unable to make use of your training in the body of another creature. as its weight, strength etc would all be different.