Rules regarding masks in the FAI?

[Blame The Rogue]

the last time pcs could be guards, that power was used to grief others, and turned into a large headache for dms. my vote is no on that

tho the godmoding of npc guards is gettin a bit much. someone was running around a town fully warded, with two huge/hostile summons in tow

so we do need to brainstorm for solutions

[Rask]

Cr8 jobs and let people roleplay guards again.

Bring back Justin Crownsilver !

[Planehopper]

Cr8 jobs and let people roleplay guards again.

Bring back Justin Crownsilver !

There were certainly problems toward the end (we weren't around at the time, but we heard all about it), but player guards worked out well for a long while beforehand while my bro and I were DMs. It takes clear expectations and a hardline of follow through when expectations aren't met, but it's clearly possible, and led to a lot of fun RP conflict.

Crownsilver, Aiden, Borton, and Rocshanks and others all RPd guards within rule boundaries just fine (and ranging from pristine to corrupt still within rules).

I know less about the Charnag Maethra (sp) in the UD and how that went.

That said, there is a different sort of playerbase these days than we had in the past, and I trust current staff to judge the feasibility of player guards.

[Blame The Rogue]

i agree to disagree

giving players power over other players is a recipe for bad things. people are human, after all

what happened last time is our cautionary tale

[Wandering_Woodsman]

I used to be a member of the town guard (PC guards) back in another server, called the RedBoot Brigade (Redboots for short).

We had the ability to arrest people using a 'key' to send them to jail for 15m or so depending on the number of offenses they'd been caught during one server up period (15m, 30m, or an hour I think? It's been a while). Once they'd been flagged, you had to kill/knock them out to jail them.

Anyway, whenever we had to use the key, we were REQUIRED to make a report of it on the forums in a DM/Redboot area that listed every arrest that was made.

In general, people didn't misuse the power associated with the keys, but at the same time, the DMs and the members of the Boots that were in charge did some in-depth training periods/trials/ of any and all new recruits untill it was shown they could be trusted with that kind of power. Anyone who abused it recieved SEVERE punishments.

All in all, it wasn't really a problem. At first, the Brigade was the military arm of the city, but ended up being the police force, rather like the Fist here. THe only difference is that the Boots would actively receive reports of incidents, and keep a listing of what was goin' on in the region on the message board (bulletin board IC) at their headquarters.

While it's up in the if guards will ever be a thing again, It would be nice to be able to have a solid reporting system of incidents.

[Maecius]

(Story)

I was one of several DMs for the Flaming Fist over their time as a player faction, and pretty much all of what you said above held true here. Their archived faction forum still has all their old arrest reports, and I sometimes read through them when I'm feeling nostalgic.

Some are straightforward:

Name: [REDACTED]
Charges: Murder, threatening.
Witnesses: Three Elves, Two Flaming Fist Guards (Myself and Rupert)

Report: Suspect threatened one of the elves at the campfire and then proceeded to murder a random person sitting at the fire. Both Rupert and myself witnessed this and ran over and arrested her. Simple as that, suspect is in a cell now.

Others are more narrative in style:

The lunitic being held in our cells is a man called [REDACTED]. As I stretched my legs and took in some air on the Wyrms Crossing an old coot approached me and informed me that he was ready for duty as a new initiate. I had no idea who this old codger was and had watchman Fentin identify him.

It came to light that this was the man who had helped catch the Red Wizard the other day and had the good word of Sir Justin Crownsilver to be recruited into the ranks. I thought nothing of it and during his recruitment, against my better judgement, I skipped his character test and began to swear him in. It was moment later that Watchman Fentin disrupted the initiation.

Fentin wished my presence in private so I ordered [REDACTED] to stay in the room and then spoke with Fentin in the corridor. He passed me the report made by the garrison regarding the old man I was recruiting. As I took in this knowledge the culprit left the room and confirmed he was indeed a warlock. At that moment security was in breach, I could not rule out an assassination attempt on the Duke... Not after Lightbringer's stunt... and had the warlock beaten down. Gods, what if there was another assassination attempt! I would think the Duke is sick of Daggerford.

We dragged the warlocks unconscious body to the cells and have left him there. As I was writing this report the Commander sought me out and we have just spoken with the prisoner. He acts mad, speaking in riddles and to himself. Though before this he did seem to have very clear moments of judgement so I feel that this is just an "act."

-Captain Rocshanks, Second Company

For the most part, it worked. At that time, the faction didn't really generate many complaints, and some of my best DMing memories were with the Flaming Fist faction. But when it fell, it fell hard, and the loss of trust from the fall was such that it resulted in all policing RP being taken out of the hands of players.

If the DM team ever wants to revisit the issue, they can; but it is safe to say that even when it was working as intended, it was a lot of work to manage the faction from both the PC and the DM side of things. And when it went sideways, it turned a lot of people off the faction, and the idea of players policing players in general.

It's also fair to say that the server has changed since then, as have the prevailing attitudes of both the players who play here and the staff.

On topic, though, I would suggest if you see a character breaking the law in front of guards, snap a screenshot and send it to the DMs (if you can't notify a free DM in game). It probably won't stop if players are ignoring it and DMs can't enforce it, and it's difficult for the DMs to enforce things they're not aware of!

If you can't bring yourself to put forth that much effort, though, or if you feel it might be a misunderstanding on their part (new player, for example), then my second piece of advice would be to react to it in character. Remind the other player -- who is probably doing what they're doing out of OOC convenience -- that their actions are being interpreted as part of the ongoing narrative. The people who play here are roleplayers, after all, and will generally shake off the lazy habits they've picked up from MMOs and single player games if they're reminded that their behavior (good or bad) is actually happening on screen, and is affecting the world around them in a very real way.

[Sun Wukong]

As for things working out smoothly during the early days of Flaming Fist, it might have had a thing or two to do with the constant looming threat of a...

[Sun Wukong]

Oh, about that threat of banhammer. In one part it is needed and things can go on without big issues for a while. A year, two perhaps. There certainly is enough evidence of that based on the Flaming Fist's and 'et ceteras' original run. But little by little people will end up having more and more negative experiences because these interactions will not be entirely on fair terms.

The guards are likely to have some manner of mechanical advantage in their favour and not to mention the likelyhood of having some DM support too. Now, whoever goes against these guards is up against special mechanical benefits and potentially the entirety of DM staff. This is a power difference that a single player or even a group of player characters cannot easily overcome. You could go for a pvp powerbuild and stomp the guards again and again, but where does that actually bring to your character? In character? Perhaps his face will be on a wanted poster. Perhaps he will be rendered into a social outcast? What about out of character? Needless forum drama with accusations of god-modding, metagaming, poor roleplaying, if not outright demands to be banned?

Therefore time creates more and more people that have more and more stuck between their teeth when it comes to the guard faction. Until eventually people do not want to play with the guards, it is easier to just avoid them altogether. And as for the guards, well, they do not want to play either since it will not be as much fun as it used to be before all the 'IC and OOC' drama.



So if you really want to bring back the player guard factions, then the guard characters need to face some harsh restrictions of their own. Namely, if the guard characters need to be permadeath characters. A death at the hands of another player or a monster should be the end of the character without exception, and they could not create another new guard character for 1, 3, or 6 months. A dead character could log into nexus and interact with the NPCs, but they could not talk to Mystra and the other guy.

This way, the balance of player interaction is somewhat more balanced and abuse of power on the guard's part will get it perma killed.

And most importantly, everyone gets to be (person) to each other upon a relatively even ground.



And yeah, I would roll a guard. Keep him at level 1 or something... And just lean against some lamp post in Baldur's Gate and complain to adventurers passing by! (There is an empty house near by, so when my guys shift ends you could murder him or something... If you want to.)

[Wandering_Woodsman]

Eh, I suppose that's true. Though it's just like the old saying.

I used to be an adventurer like you. Untill I took a kobold in the knee.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I enjoy simply standing outside the FAI watching things.

[Dragonslayer]

Sounds like good roleplaying to me.

I'm of the mind that if you give players power to RP themselves, they'll usually adhere to its restrictions. If not, you have an appeal process to the DM's.

[Rask]

Players as guards were, to this day, the best RP i've ever had on the server. And i've been here a long time.

[Flasmix]

Players as guards were, to this day, the best RP i've ever had on the server. And i've been here a long time.

Quoted for truth.